Gour Govinda Swami: Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya.
Devotee: Om bhagavate vasudevaya.
Gour Govinda Swami: Shrimad Bhagavatam Eighth Canto Chapter Twelve text one and two.
vṛṣa-dhvajo niśamyedaṁ yoṣid-rūpeṇa dānavān mohayitvā sura-gaṇān hariḥ somam apāyayat vṛṣam āruhya giriśaḥ sarva-bhūta-gaṇair vṛtaḥ saha devyā yayau draṣṭuṁ yatrāste madhusūdanaḥ [SB 8.12.1-2]
Translation by Srila Prabhupāda: Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, in the form of a woman, captivated the demons and enabled the demigods to drink the nectar. After hearing of these pastimes, Lord Śiva, who is carried by a bull, went to the place where Madhusūdana, the Lord, resides. Accompanied by his wife, Umā, and surrounded by his companions, the ghosts, Lord Śiva went there to see the Lord’s form as a woman. Text 3.
sabhājito bhagavatā sādaraṁ somayā bhavaḥ sūpaviṣṭa uvācedaṁ pratipūjya smāyān harim [ŚB 8.12.3]
Translation by Srila Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality of Godhead welcomed Lord Śiva and Umā with great respect, and after being seated comfortably, Lord Śiva duly worshiped the Lord and smilingly spoke as follows. Text 4.
śrī-mahādeva uvāca deva-deva jagad-vyāpiñ jagad-īśa jagan-māyā sarveṣām api bhāvānāṁ tvam ātmā hetur īśvaraḥ [ŚB 8.12.4]
Translation by Srila Prabhupāda: Lord Mahādeva said: O chief demigod among the demigods, O all-pervading Lord, master of the universe, by Your energy You are transformed into the creation. You are the root and efficient cause of everything. You are not material. Indeed, You are the Supersoul or supreme living force of everything. Therefore, You are Parameśvara, the supreme controller of all controllers.
Purport by Srila Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, resides within the material world as the sattva-guṇa-avatāra. Lord Śiva is the tamo-guṇa-avatāra, and Lord Brahmā is the rajo-guṇa-avatāra, but although Lord Viṣṇu is among them, He is not in the same category. Lord Viṣṇu is deva-deva, the chief of all the demigods. Since Lord Śiva is in this material world, the energy of the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu, includes Lord Śiva. Lord Viṣṇu is therefore called jagad-vyāpī, “the all-pervading Lord.”Lord Śiva is sometimes called Maheśvara, and so people think that Lord Śiva is everything. But here Lord Śiva addresses Lord Viṣṇu as Jagadīśa, “the master of the universe.” Lord Śiva is sometimes called Viśveśvara, but here he addresses Lord Viṣṇu as Jaganmāyā, indicating that even Viśveśvara is under Lord Viṣṇu’s control.Lord Viṣṇu is the master of the spiritual world, yet He controls the material world also, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā (mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sacarācaram). Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva are also sometimes called īśvara, but the supreme īśvara is Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Kṛṣṇa
As stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ: the Supreme Lord is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Viṣṇu. Everything in existence works in proper order because of Lord Viṣṇu. aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Even paramāṇu, the small atoms, work because of Lord Viṣṇu’s presence within them
So here it is said Mahādeva, the Śiva is called Mahādeva. Maheśvara, Śiva is sometimes called Maheśvara. But Śivaji is here addressing Lord Viṣṇu as Deva Deva, chief of all the demigods. Since Lord Śiva is in the material world, the energy of the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu includes Lord Śiva. Gopalini śakti it is said
Lord Śiva is sometimes called Maheśvara, and so people think that Lord Śiva is everything, but Lord Śiva is addressing Lord Viṣṇu here as jagadīśa. Uh, the master of the universe. Lord Śiva is sometimes called Viśveśvara, but here he addresses Lord Viṣṇu as jagan-māyā, indicating that even Viśveśvara is under Lord Viṣṇu's control. Lord Viṣṇu is the master of the spiritual world, yet he controls the material world also
mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10
Bhagavad Gita says. Lord Brahma and Lord Śiva are also sometimes called Īśvara, but Supreme Īśvara is Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. Brahma Samhita says clearly
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.1]
Everything in existence works in proper order where Lord Viṣṇu has entered. Viṣṇu has entered into it. Second Puruṣa-avatāra. Second Puruṣa-avatāra—Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.
Prathama Puruṣa, the first Puruṣa-avatāra, is Mahā-Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Uh? So, the second Puruṣa-avatāra is an expansion of the first Puruṣa-avatāra, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. That is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Uh? Enters into every brahmaṇḍa.
When Mahā-Viṣṇu casts His glance upon māyā-prakṛti, at that time innumerable brahmaṇḍas come out from His body, isn't it? Then the second Puruṣa-avatāra, uh, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, enters into every universe. That is said. Hmm.
From Him, from His navel sprouts a lotus with a stem, and Brahma is born there, isn't it? Brahma is born there. Hmm. So, Brahma is not Parameśvara. See the purport first created being.
This is what you can understand that as this Viṣṇu, second Purusha avatar, has entered every universe, so everything goes on properly. Even that is says aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.35]. Even param even paramāṇu, the small atom, work because Lord Viṣṇu's presence within them. Even within them.
Everything in existence works in proper order because Lord Viṣṇu has entered. So one should not misunderstand that Lord Brahma and Lord Śiva are equal to Lord Viṣṇu. Should not misunderstand. One thinks so is an offender. Aparadhi. That is stated. Pāṣaṇsa bhaved pāṣaṇḍi. What is that verse? Mm.yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ samatvenaiva vīkṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam [CC Madhya 25.80]
Isn't it? He's pāṣaṇḍi. Mm. Who says Lord Narayana equal with Brahma and Rudra, Śiva. He's pāṣaṇḍi. He's pāṣaṇḍi. Because Brahma and Śiva, Rudra, are not equal to Viṣṇu. Because Lord Viṣṇu is Supreme Lord, whereas Brahma and Śiva are His servants.
e-jaḍa-jagate viṣṇu parama-īśvara giriśādi yata deva tāṅra vidhikara [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 5 verse 15]
This material world, Lord Viṣṇu is Parameswara. Whereas all the demigods headed by Brahma and Śiva are His servants. So, one should not equalize the servant or servants with the master, then becomes pāṣaṇḍi.
yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ samatvenaiva vīkṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam [CC Madhya 25.80]
So this is nāma-aparādha also. We discussed that thing when you speak about nāma-aparādha. Thinking all demigods as good as Īśvara, Parameśvara, Viṣṇu is aparadha.
vāsudeve chāḍi’ yei anya-deve bhaje īśvara chāḍiyā sei saṁsārete maje [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 5 Verse 18]
anya-deva saha sama viṣṇu-ke ye māne se baḍa ajñāna īśa-tattva nāhi jāne [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 5 Verse 14]
He says, he is foolish, he is ignorant fool. He doesn't know īśa tattva who thinks the Brahma, Śiva, all demigods headed by Brahma and Śiva are equal to Lord Viṣṇu.
vāsudeve chāḍi’ yei anya-deve bhaje īśvara chāḍiyā sei saṁsārete maje
If somebody doesn't worship Lord Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, but worships demigods, he cannot be delivered. He will be revolving here in this cycle of birth and death, jada jada, material world.
In other words, we may say, and otherwise also we may say, if Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is worshipped, automatically all demigods are worshipped because Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the root of all manifestation.
yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā [SB 4.31.14]
Isn't it? Bhāgavata. If you pour water at the root of a tree, yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena Don't you know this verse? Famous verse.
yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā
If you pour water at the root of the tree, automatically all the branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, fruits get automatically. No need of separate sprinkling of water.
If you give food to the stomach, automatically whole body is nourished. No need of giving food separately to separate limbs of the body, hands, legs, ears, eyes, nose. No need. tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā.
If Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is worshipped, automatically all are worshipped. No need. Similarly, those who are Vaiṣṇavas, they are they only worship Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa.
nāmaika-śaraṇa yei bhakta mahājana ekeśvara kṛṣṇe bhaji’ chāḍe anya jana [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 5 Verse 71]
Completely surrender unto Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. Completely surrender to the holy name of Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. They never worship any demigod. They never worship any demigod.
ekeśvara kṛṣṇe bhaji’ chāḍe anya jana Only they do Kṛṣṇa bhajan or Viṣṇu bhajan. Thereby, that means they are pouring water at the root of the tree. So automatically all the demigods are worshipped.
Demigods will never be angry with a Vaiṣṇav because they are worshipped when Lord Viṣṇu is worshipped or Kṛṣṇa is worshipped. But therefore, we also say that thing. We thereby the Vaiṣṇavas, they know this tattva.
This doesn't mean that we should disrespect the demigods. We don't disrespect them. We pay them proper respect kṛṣṇa-dāsa bali’ tāṅre karena vandana [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 5 Verse 74]. We pay proper respect to demigods because they are also servants of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa dāsa are in that respect Vaiṣṇava.
And Śambhu, Śivaji vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ [ŚB 12.13.16]. Śivaji is one of the great Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava tattva. He's Vaiṣṇava tattva.
But one question is here. That if such circumstances arise, some demigod worship is, is to be worshipped, what should be done? What should be done? What is our Vaiṣṇava tattva? It is Vaiṣṇava tattva. What do you, what, what you say? Hmm?
Devotee: You told the story in France, so I
Gour Govinda Swami: What is that?
Devotee: You said that Viṣṇu should be worshipped through that, puja.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Uh, that's all right. Mm. Because Viṣṇu is there. He has entered in everything. Even is in an atom, isn't it? Paramānu, small atom. So, is there not Viṣṇu in Śiva? Isn't it? Viṣṇu is also in the Śiva.
The Vaishnav, if such occasion arises .. So, a Vaishnav worship Viṣṇu. Worships Viṣṇu. Thereby, Śiva ji is worshipped. Śiva ji is worshipped. There are so many instances also.
So many instances there are you can find in Viṣṇu Dharmottara there is a story. Do you know that? Ah? Yes, yes.
Devotee: A Brahmin was forced to wouldn't do his worship Yeah, yeah ... and he got punished by a Vaishnav sadhu.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: So just say it. It's much sweeter when you say it.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes, yes. Mm. One such occasion arises... Mm, mm. Such occasion arises once. Mm. There was, there was yes.
Village chief. Uh?
Devotee: Village chief.
Gour Govinda Swami: Ah, village chief. Ah. There was a village chief, uh, his son. Yes. In Viṣṇu Dharmottara that story is there.
Viśvaksena. A Maha bhagavata, great Vaishnav, name was Viśvaksena. He was, uh, traveling throughout the world paryata. Once he was sitting, becoming very tired in a forest under a tree.
So there was a village close to that forest, and the son of that village chief came there and saw Viśvaksena and asked, "Who are you?" He said, "I'm a Brahmin."
Then that son of that village chief said, "Will you please worship my Ishtadeva, Lord Śiva, today for me? I every day worship, but today I have very bad headache. I cannot do it. Will you please worship Lord Śiva for me?" Mm.
But that Viśvaksena Brahmin said, "I am a Vaishnav. I only worship Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. I never worship any demigod, so I can't do it." Ah. "I may worship Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, the quadruple, four quadruple, because they are, uh, mm, manifestations or expansions of Lord Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, but I cannot worship any demigod."
So then that, mm, son of that village chief became angry. He said, "Don't you know I am the son of this village chief?" Then he drew out his sword, "And I'll chop off your head if you won't worship today my Ishtadeva, Lord Śiva."
Then that Brahmin thought of, "Yes." Then he said, "All right, I'll worship." Mm. Otherwise, this demon... He, he was a demon, you see. He'll chop off his head.
He thought of, "He's a demon, this boy, the son of the village chief. He is in tamo guṇa, in mode of ignorance, and Lord Nṛsiṁha deva annihilates such demons, those who are in tamoguṇa. So I must worship Lord Nṛsiṁha deva in Śiva Linga." He thought of like that. Mm. "So Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva will destroy his tamo guṇa." He thought of that thing and said, "All right, I'll worship."
Then he went to worship. When he began worshiping, he uttered this mantra, "Oṃ Nṛsiṁhaya Namah." He uttered this mantra, "Oṃ Nṛsiṁhaya Namah." Then- Not for puspanjali, nothing. Eh?
When that son of village chief heard this thing, he got again angry, drew out his sword. What do you say? You are worshiping Lord Nṛsiṁha here instead of worshiping Lord Siva.
When he drew out his sword to chop up the head of that Vaiṣṇava Brahma, immediately Lord Nṛsiṁha appeared from that Siva linga. Immediately Lord Nṛsiṁha appeared and killed all his family men, including that boy, because they're all demons.
So, this is there still now in South India, known as Liṅga-sphoṭa Nṛsiṁha. Because Nṛsiṁha has come out from Siva linga. Nṛsiṁha is there, Viṣṇu is there.
This is a Vaiṣṇava process. Eh? We worship. If such occasion arises, we worship, eh, Viṣṇu in a demigod. Because Viṣṇu is there. This process.
And those who are not Vaiṣṇavas, they think the demigods as svatantra īśvara. Īśvara. Independent īśvara. Eh? Therefore, they are offenders. They commit offense. Nama-aparadha.
Many, many sastric evidences, Vedic evidences are there how Supreme Lord is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu.
athāpi yat-pāda-nakhāvasṛṣṭaṁ jagad viriñcopahṛtārhaṇāmbhaḥ seśaṁ punāty anyatamo mukundāt ko nāma loke bhagavat-padārthaḥ [ŚB 1.18.21]
This verse is there in first canto, Srimad Bhagavatam. Hm? One eighteen twenty-first verse. Isn't it? First canto, eighteenth chapter, twenty-first verse. You see.
athāpi yat-pāda-nakhāvasṛṣṭaṁ jagad viriñcopahṛtārhaṇāmbhaḥ seśaṁ punāty anyatamo mukundāt ko nāma loke bhagavat-padārthaḥ
Eh? Who is Bhagavān other than Mukunda? It's said. Eh? Who is Bhagavān other than Mukunda? Mukunda is Bhagavān.
Because from his toenail came out the transcendental water, Ganges. Eh? Ganga. And Lord Brahma accept that water and puts that water in his water pot, kamaṇḍalu, and offers it as arghya. And Lord Śiva carries that water on his head. Isn't it?
Carries that water on his head and has become Śiva, all auspicious, and purifies whole world with that water. So, this is clear evidence how Lord Brahma and Śiva are subordinate to Lord Viṣṇu, Mukunda.
So ko nāma loke bhagavat-padārthaḥ. Therefore says, who is Bhagavān other than Mukunda? It says, Brahma is not Bhagavān, Śiva is not Bhagavān. There's clear proof here.
And in Gita you find many places Kṛṣṇa himself has said how he is Bhagavān. mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañ-jaya [BG 7.7]. There nobody is superior to Me. ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā ca prabhur eva ca [BG 9.24].
When Arjuna has offered his prayer, he has said,
pitāsi lokasya carācarasya tvam asya pūjyaś ca gurur garīyān na tvat-samo ’sty abhyadhikaḥ kuto ’nyo loka-traye ’py apratima-prabhāva [BG 11.43]
In eleventh chapter. Rig Veda Sangita says, viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ. Isn't it? tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ.
Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad says, ayaṁ ātmā sarveṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ madhu Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 2.5.14]. ayam ātmā sarveṣāṁ bhūtānām adhipatiḥ, sarveṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ rājā. [Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 2.5.15]
Tenth canto Srimad Bhagavatam also says, kṛṣṇam enam avehi tvam ātmānam akhilātmanām. [ŚB 10.14.55] His atma, all atma is Supersoul, Paramatma.
Gopala Tapini Sruti says, tasmāt kṛṣṇa eva paro devas taṃ dhyāyet taṃ rasayet taṃ yajed ity. [First Chapter of the Gopāla-tāpanī] Eh? Kṛṣṇa eva parama. Kṛṣṇa is Parameśvara. taṃ dhyāyet . He should be meditated. He should be Name should be chanted. He should be worshipped like this.
Brahma-saṁhitā says clearly,
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.1]
Śvetāśvetara Upaniṣad says,
tam isvaranam paramam mahesvaram tam devatanam paramam ca daivatam
Deva-deva, this verse says also deva-deva. Huh? He's deva-deva. The chief demigod among the demigods. Here, addressed deva-deva. Mm. So Śvetāśvetara śruti says that.
tam devatanam paramam ca daivatam patim patinam paramam parastad vidama devam bhuvanesam idyam
First canto, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says after giving description of some chief incarnations of Kṛṣṇa. At last, he says, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [ŚB 1.3.28].
Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kavirāja Gosvāmī also says,
svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa sarvāśraya parama īśvara kṛṣṇa sarva-śāstre kaya [CC Ādi 2.106]
All Vedic literature say Kṛṣṇa parameśvara, Kṛṣṇa svayam bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa sarvāśrayaḥ, all should shelter of Kṛṣṇa.
advaya-jñāna tattva-vastu kṛṣṇera svarūpa brahma, ātmā, bhagavān — tina tāṅra rūpa [CC Ādi 2.65]
brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [ŚB 1.2.11]
Huh? Three manifestations, brahma, ātmā, bhagavān. Bhagavān is complete manifestation, and manifestation brahma and paramātmā is partial manifestation.
Veda, bhāgavata, upaniṣad, āgama, pūrṇa-tattva yāre kaya, nāhi tāra sama.
veda, bhāgavata, upaniṣat, āgama ‘pūrṇa-tattva’ yāṅre kahe, nāhi yāṅra sama [CC Ādi 2.24]
In Veda, in Bhāgavata, Upaniṣads, Āgama, all Vedic literature it is said Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇa-tattva, Supreme Truth. Nobody is equal to Him.
Gauṇa, mukhya, vṛtti ki anya vyatireke, vedera pratigya kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake.
mukhya-gauṇa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya-vyatireke vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake [CC Madhya 20.146]
Directly or indirectly, chief or secondary, whatever you way you may go, all truth related to Kṛṣṇa. All Veda, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo [BG 15.15]. In all Vedas, Kṛṣṇa is to be known, and all Vedas speak about Kṛṣṇa.
sarva-ādi, sarva-aṁśī, kiśora-śekhara cid-ānanda-deha, sarvāśraya, sarveśvara [CC Madhya 20.153]
He's sarvādi. He's anādi. He has no beginning. He is the beginning of everything. anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.1].
He's always kiśora, ten, twelve years old, kiśora. cid-ānanda-deha spiritual body. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, sarvāsrayaḥ sarveśvara. He's īśvara of all īśvaras. Sarveśvara parameśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Huh?
Brahma-saṁhitā also says,
goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devi maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.43]
That verse is there. In this material world, people know Brahma as creator, isn't it? He's ādi-guru, original guru, isn't it? Veda comes out from his mouth. People know it.
And Śiva is Maheśvara, deva-deva, Mahādeva. Here it said Mahādeva uvāca. But neither Brahmā nor Śiva is paratattva, is Supreme Truth. Not Bhagavān. They are not Bhagavān. They are not paratattva. Huh?
Here this verse says how the water coming out and so water coming out from the toenail of Lord Hari, Mukunda, huh, is carried by Lord Śiva on his head. So, this says Śiva is not paratattva. Mm. He's servant of that Lord Hari, that Kṛṣṇa. Mm. Kṛṣṇa is parameśvara, Bhagavān.
Siddhānta-grantha Brahma-saṁhitā clearly says, huh, Baladeva, Nārāyaṇa, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī, Kṣīra, Kṣīrodakaśāyī, all Brahmā, Śiva, Guṇāvatāra, nirviśeṣa Brahma, all are what? Subordinate. Subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. All are subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. all these incarnations. Huh?
Kṛṣṇa is known as avatārī, the source of all incarnations. ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Aṁśa kalāḥ, portion and part. Portion of the portion is Kalā. Now these avatars are portion, plenary portion. Lord Viṣṇu and portion of the portion, Kalā. Hmm.
Brahma, Viṣṇu and Śiva, though they are Gunavatara, but Viṣṇu is Bhagavān. Brahma and Śiva are not Bhagavān. Hmm. Brahma Samhita says, avatāra avatārī beda.
dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate vivṛta-hetu-samāna-dharmā yas tādṛg eva hi ca viṣṇutayā vibhāti govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.46]
What is meaning? Hmm. Dharma. Uh, Adi Puruṣa, original person is Govinda. I do bhajan of that Govinda. Uh, there are many lamps Giving light. Uh, Many lamps are there they are giving light equally. But one lamp is original lamp. Dīpā means lamp.
dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate vivṛta-hetu-samāna-dharmā
that it says. Uh. Because all the lamps are giving lights equally. But one lamp is original lamp. All other lamps have come out from Him. But one is original. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. Adi Puruṣa Govinda. Hmm.
Brahma, Brahma-saṁhitā says, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta also you will find the same thing. Ka.
dīpa haite yaiche bahu dīpera jvalana mūla eka dīpa tāhā kariye gaṇana [CC Ādi 2.89]
taiche saba avatārera kṛṣṇa se kāraṇa [CC Ādi 2.90]
Kaviraj Gosvāmī says the same thing. Hmm. One original lamp is there, so many lamps are coming out from Him, being lighted, and they give light equally. And original lamp is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the source of innumerable incarnations. Hmm.
Brahma-saṁhitā says Brahma-saṁhitā also says about Brahma and Śiva.
bhāsvān yathāśma-śakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ svīyam kiyat prakaṭayaty api tadvad atra brahmā ya eṣa jagad-aṇḍa-vidhāna-kartā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.49]
What is that? Speak in English. Hmm. Uh. bhāsvān yathāśma-śakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ As Surya, sun, uh, what you say? Uh, makes effulgent many, uh, different, different, what you say? Stones, what you, what you say? No. Crystal. Crystal stones. Different, different crystal stones. Uh, sphaṭika-prastara, not ordinary prastara. So crystal stone that Surya rasi is also manifest. Uh.
Similarly, Adi Puruṣa Govinda, original person Govinda, uh, empowers some jīva. Empowers some jīva. Uh, He inculcates His own energy into it, and makes him Brahma to create this whole world. Uh, different, different creations. So Brahma is jīva-tattva. He's not Viṣṇu-tattva. Vibhinnāṁśa, differentiated parts. That's it. Hmm.
But Brahma is not an ordinary jīva. He's not an ordinary jīva, but still a jīva-tattva because ordinary jīva Hmm. Brahma is separate ordinary jīva. Ordinary jīva has fifty qualities in minute proportion. Well, whereas Brahma has those fifty qualities in greater proportion, plus five qualities extra. Fifty-five qualities Brahma has. So Brahma is not an ordinary jīva, but still Brahma is jīva-tattva.
Similarly, Śambhu or Śiva, uh, Brahma-saṁhitā says
kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt sañjāyate na hi tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā 5.45]
As if you add some acid to milk, it becomes dadhi, yogurt. Eh? Similarlywhen Garbhodakasayi Viṣṇu, eh, accepts tamo guṇa, becomes Śiva. Becomes Śiva. When Viṣṇu accepts tamo guṇa, becomes Śiva.
So, Śiva is not different from Viṣṇu, but not Viṣṇu. As yogurt is formed out of milk when acid is added, so yogurt is not different from milk, but not milk. It cannot be milk also. It's bhedābheda-prakāśa. There is difference and not difference. It is bhedābheda-prakāśa, Śiva. This is Śiva-tattva.
Devotee: When you speak about Śiva, is it Rudra or SadaŚiva?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no. Rudra. It's Rudra. SadaŚiva is Lord Viṣṇu. Rudra is the expansion, plenary portion of SadaŚiva.
Devotee: SadaŚiva is a different name for Śiva?
Gour Govinda Swami: : SadaŚiva is Viṣṇu in Vaikuntha. As innumerable Viṣṇus are there, like Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana. SadaŚiva is one of them. Viṣṇu. Mm.
So Śiva is not Parameśvara. Mm. He's not Supreme īśvara. Mm. And Śiva is Śiva has Śambhu. We say Śambhu or Rudra. Śambhu or Rudra. He's known as Śambhu or Rudra here. Śiva is known as Śambhu and Rudra here in this material world. Eh? So he's also given answer. Mm. Accepted māyā. Mm.
Brahma-saṁhitā, śloka, five--forty-five śloka. Mm. Dadhi, kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt. That verse says clearly. Mm. So Śambhu is not independent Īśvara. He's subordinate to Parameśvara, Govinda. Mm.
And Śambhu has also fifty-five qualities, as Brahma has. Fifty qualities found in ordinary jīva, eh, are also found, those fifty qualities, in Śiva in greater proportion, and plus five extra qualities. So, Śiva is not also an ordinary jīva. And Śiva-tattva is a special tattva. Is not jīva-tattva, nor Viṣṇu-tattva. In between.
Śiva Now, Lord Śiva is also, what you say, mm, superior to Brahma. superior to Brahma. Mm. Brahma is jīva-tattva. And we cannot say Śiva is completely jīva-tattva. And Kṛṣṇa. And he has gotten that boon because mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā [ŚB 11.19.21]. Kṛṣṇa wants that his bhakta, his devotee should be worshiped more than him. Yes.
And Kṛṣṇa also worships his devotee. Sudāmā Vipra. Eh? Kṛṣṇa worships Sudāmā Vipra isn't it? Kṛṣṇa also worships Lord Śiva. Mm. Lord Rama worshiped Lord Śiva, isn't it? Eh? Lord Rama worshiped Lord Śiva. Kṛṣṇa worshiped Lord Śiva.
So, people can't understand, then say, "Oh, Śiva is greater." Lord Rama worshiped. Lord Kṛṣṇa worshiped. But why did they? Why do they worship? They cannot understand this tattva. They worship to teach people that a Vaiṣṇava should be worshiped.
Lord Rama worshiped and said it's Rāmeśvara. Lord Rama said that because He's Maryādā-puruṣottama. Mm-hmm. He came here to establish all principles of morality. Ādarśa, idealism. He's ideal king, ideal father, ideal son, ideal brother, ideal friend. Everything ideal. Ideal husband. Everything ideal. So, He worshiped and named him Rāmeśvara.
Uh, Rama Dasheśvara, Rāmeśvara in two meanings. Rāmeśvara, Ramadasheśvara. Uh, whose lord is Ra-Ram is Rāmeśvara. That means Śiva, because Śiva's Lord is Ram. But Lord Ram said, "It's my Īśvara." That's therefore I worship him. But truly, Ramadasheśvara, whose lord is Lo-Ram, is Rāmeśvara, is Śiva. Śiva's lord is Ram.
Lord Ram worshiped Śiva because to teach people that Śiva should be worshiped as a Vaiṣṇava, great Vaiṣṇava, and Vaiṣṇava should be worshiped more than the Lord. mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā. And Lord Śiva also worshiped that he. Lord Śiva also worshiped, and so Lord Kṛṣṇa also worshiped Lord Śiva in order to teach people that Śivaji as a Vaiṣṇava, great Vaiṣṇava, should be worshiped.
And second thing, tattva, we have this tattva that I say that Vaiṣṇava Viṣvaksena, uh, worshiped Lord Nṛsiṁhadev in Śiva Linga because Viṣṇu is there, and Nṛsiṁhadev came out also. This is Vaiṣṇava tattva. Mm. The Vaiṣṇava, they know this tattva. To teach people this tattva, Lord Śiva and so Lord Kṛṣṇa worship Lord Śiva.
Thereby, Kṛṣṇa worshiped him. Of course, Kṛṣṇa worshiped him because Kṛṣṇa is there in Lord Śiva. So Kṛṣṇa worships His own worship. Kṛṣṇa does His own worship when He worship Śiva. Ātmarpuja. This another tattva. And teach people that Śiva should be worshiped as a Vaiṣṇava.
So, in this, two tattvas are there. Why Lord Kṛṣṇa worshiped Śiva, and why Lord Ram worshiped Śiva. These two things are there. To teach people that Śiva, he should be worshiped because he's a great Vaiṣṇava. And second thing, Lord Ram or Lord Ram, either Lord Ram or Lord Kṛṣṇa worshiped Śiva, that means they worship themselves. Kṛṣṇa worships himself there because Kṛṣṇa is there in Lord Śiva. Ātmarpuja, his own puja. He does his own puja. That is tattva.
So, if we, um, discuss all this tattva, then we can understand that, mm,
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
Govinda is cause of all causes called the Parameśvara, Kṛṣṇa sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Mm, He has no beginning, and He's beginning of everything. He's the source of all emanations. Mm. So this is our explanation, and this is our discussions, tattva.
Mm. And in the purport, Prabhupāda Mahārāja has given some hint here. Mm. How though Śiva sometimes called Maheśvara, and so people think that Lord Śiva is everything, but here, Lord Śiva addressed Lord Viṣṇu as Jagadisa, the master of the universe. Lord Śiva is sometimes called Viśveśvara, but here he addresses Lord Viṣṇu as Jaganmāyā, indicating that even Viśveśvara is under Lord Viṣṇu's control.
Lord Viṣṇu is the master of the spiritual world, and he controls the material world also, as stated in the Bhagavad Gita. Lord Brahma and Lord Śiva are also sometimes called īśvara, but Supreme īśvara, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Devotee: But in the material world, there is two Viṣṇu, two form of Viṣṇu in each universe. Mm. Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, he enters each Brahmanda, each universe, and he fills bottom half in his Garbha, and he's lying there at the bottom of the universe but also
Gour Govind Swami: Three, three Viṣṇus. āraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.
Devotee: But I mean, in one universe, there is two Viṣṇu. Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and Ksirodakasayi Viṣṇu. He has his own planet, but Śvetadvīpa?
Gour Govinda Swami: Svetadwipa is here in material world. Garbhodaka Loka. Yeah. Śvetadvīpa.
Devotee: So, when the Viṣṇu appears on, uh, on the back of Garuda, that is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Viṣṇu- to deliver the, deliver us, like in the fights- that is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.
Gour Govinda Swami: Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu also.
Devotee: Both of them come Mm-hmm, both. Carrier. Mm-hmm. Garuda is the carrier of Viṣṇu.
Garuda is there, Jagannātha, because Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu is there. Kṛṣṇa is the source of all incarnations. So, when Kṛṣṇa comes, all incarn. all are there. Vāsudeva is four hundred form. Uh, is Viṣṇu form, Vāsudeva.
Garuda is the carrier of Vāsudeva. Uh. Vāsudeva appeared in prison house of Kaṁsa as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva. Isn't it? But Kṛṣṇa is the son of Nanda Mahārājaand Yaśodā Mata. Yaśodā Nandana, Nanda Nandana. Self of Devakī, Nandana Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva Nandana Kṛṣṇa, but Vāsudeva Kṛṣṇa.
So, when He, He appeared four hundred form there. Vasudeva and Devakī offered prayers as Supreme Lord. Nanda and Yaśodā never offered prayers. Ma, Mara Putra, he's our son. Nanda says, "Your son." Yaśodā, "My son."
When Uddhava went there, said, "Oh, why are you lamenting? Why are you becoming so morose distressed, so griefed? Kṛṣṇa is all pervaded, Supreme Lord. He's everywhere." "Ah," Devakī says, "Stop it. He's my son. He's my son."
"Oh, let it be your Īśvara. Let it-- Let him be your Īśvara, but he's my son. But he's my son." Uh, Nanda Mahārāja says, and Yaśodā also says,
trayyā copaniṣadbhiś ca sāṅkhya-yogaiś ca sātvataiḥ upagīyamāna-māhātmyaṁ hariṁ sāmanyatātmajam [ŚB 10.8.45]
Sa means Yaśodā Mata says, "My son." Mm. And all Upaniṣads, all Vedas, Mm. Say, "Bhagavan, he's my son." sāmanyatātmajam He's my son. Mm.
So when Vasudeva and Devakī, they prayed, "Please, manifest yourself as a child now." "Don't manifest this form here." Mm. They prayed. Then he became a child, isn't it? Then He became a child. Mm.
Then He ordered, "Take me to Nanda Gokul. Keep me there." Then Vasudeva went. That varṇana description is there in tenth canto Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Gopāla-cāmpū, vivid description is there, Jīva Gosvāmī's. Mm. You'll find. Mm.
And it's mentioned in Gopāla-cāmpū, Jīva Gosvāmī has said, "Yaśodā gave birth to twin, one son, one daughter." But Yaśodā didn't know. Nobody knows. Yogamāyā, made everybody sleep. All are sleeping, unconscious. Nobody knows. Yaśodā didn't know, uh, what child she has produced. Yaśodā didn't know. Nobody knows.
When Vasudeva went there, all are sleeping. Yaśodā was sleeping, unconscious. But Yaśodā gave birth to twin, one son, one daughter. Son is Kṛṣṇa and daughter is Yogamāyā. Two.
When Vasudeva went there, Vasudeva entered into, uh, this, uh, birthplace. We say, Sūtikāgāra, mm, maternity you say in English, maternity. Uh, maternity home. Maternity, where, uh, ladies produce child. We say, Sūtikāgāra, mm.
By the influence of Yogamāyā, Vasudeva couldn't see, couldn't see the son. He saw a daughter only. He placed the son there and took the daughter by influence of Yogamāyā, but one son and daughter were born, by the influence, Yogamāyā covered up the son and showed Vasudeva the daughter only. So, Vasudeva put the son there and took the daughter.
No, that is Mahāmāyā. Yogamāyā. Yogamāyā is expansion of Mahāmāyā. It's Durgā. Vasudeva took Durgā, Mahāmāyā. Yogamāyā stayed there. And Yogamāyā covered up son, and Vāsudeva, then Vasudeva's son and Vāsudeva entered into Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa is the source of Vāsudeva. When Kṛṣṇa is there, all incarnations are there.
So, killing of demons is the work of Vāsudeva, not Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa never kills any demon. It's work of Vāsudeva, Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa is only immersed in rasa dance, nothing else. He's the Rasarāja. He's Rasarāja. He's the king of all mellows, Rasarāja Kṛṣṇa. Always immersed, always dancing in rasa dance in Goloka Vṛndāvana with Gopīs headed by Rādhārāṇī. That's no other work Kṛṣṇa has.
But in Bhauma-līlā here, the... That is the pastimes he manifested here in this material world is known Bhauma-līlā. It's material. Pastimes manifested in material world. Bhauma means material. Mm, Bhauma-līlā. He killed many demons. He did many things, but that is the work of Vāsudeva. Killing of demons is work of Vāsudeva. Not the work of Kṛṣṇa.
Mm, these are subtle tattvas are there, and Gosvāmī’s have discussed all these things. Mm. So,
Devotee: Who is Subhadrā then?
Gour Govinda Swami: Subhadrā is his sister.
Devotee: She was, she was born afterwards?
Gour Govinda Swami: : Devakī and Vasudeva is the father of Subhadrā. That's mentioned in tenth canto. Bhaginī. Subhadrā is sister.
Devotee: She's not Yogamāyā?
Gour Govinda Swami: : She's Yogamāyā. She is? Yes. Puruṣa, expansion. Yes. She's not Mahāmāyā, so Yogamāyā.
Two māyās, Yogamāyā, Mahāmāyā. Mahāmāyā is external, material energy. That's Durgā Devi. Generally, we say māyā, illusory energy. Illusory energy, māyā. That is Mahāmāyā, is Durgā. Yogamāyā is internal energy, is Yogamāyā.
Devotee: Durgā Māyā, uh, Yogamāyā is spiritual energy?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, spiritual, internal energy is Yogamāyā. Mm. Many manifested expansions are there.
And chief is Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is chief. As Kṛṣṇa expands himself in innumerable forms, similarly, Rādhārāṇī expands. Rādhārāṇī is chief of the energy, Hlādinī-śakti.
The Hlādinī-śakti, huh, eternal energy, has three divisions: Saṁvit, Sandhinī, Hlādinī. Saṁvit, Sandhinī, Hlādinī. And Rādhārāṇī is Hlādinī-śakti. Hlādinī, chief. And all śaktis are expansion of Rādhārāṇī. śakti tattva.
The Gopīs, they are expansion of Rādhārāṇī. The Rukmiṇī, Satyabhāmā, the Mahiṣīs, the queens of Kṛṣṇa, they are all expansions of Rādhārāṇī. Lakṣmīs. Lakṣmīs. Lakṣmīs in Vaikuṇṭha. They are all expansions of Rādhārāṇī. All expansions of Rādhārāṇī. Yes.
Devotee: Mahiṣīs, I said that Śakti is expansion of Rādhārāṇī. Yeah. What about jīva?
Gour Govinda Swami: Jīva is also śakti. śakti, Taṭasthā śakti, marginal energy. It's also expansion of Rādhārāṇī. It's differentiated as, as māyā śakti, illusory energy, material energy. Yes. Uh-huh.
Devotee: You were saying māyā-śakti.?
Gour Govinda Swami: Māyā-śakti, illusory energy.
Devotee: But jīva is also māyā-śakti.
Gour Govinda Swami: No, that is superior energy. Taṭasthā, marginal.
Devotee: Is the marginal also māyā-śakti?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, all energy expansions are from Rādhārāṇī. All energy expansions. Mm-hmm.
But this, uh, jīva is Taṭasthā, marginal energy, and material energy, illusory energy is external energy. There's different thing, guna-māyā, jīva-māyā. That day I was saying. Guna-māyā and jīva-māyā.
Devotee: So you mean guna is for, uh, living entity, even Rādhārāṇī is within you?
Gour Govinda Swami: You see, may-- illusory energy is also expansion of, but it is shadow. It is shadow. Chāyā. It is shadow, shadow energy, ener-- shadow of the chief energy. Eh? Shadow of the chief energy. This external energy, illusory energy, māyā. Chāyā is shadow. Chāyā means shadow. It's shadow. It is not real. It's shadow. Yes?
Devotee: So, we hear you explain this, like, um, the devotees who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, they're covered by Yogamāyā potency. The devotees engaged in Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are covered by Yogamāyā potency who is engaged in that lila. Yes. So, the presence in Vrindavan is covered by Yogamāyā.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yogamāyā?
Devotee: so that ordinary, uh, living entities, the ordinary conditioned souls cannot see the Supreme Lord.
Gour Govinda Swami: No. Covered up.
Devotee: Is it correct to understand that Rādhārāṇī is making all these arrangements through Yogamāyā potency?
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm? What he says.
Devotee: For Kṛṣṇa's pastimes? He said, "Is it correct to understand that Rādhārāṇī is making all these arrangements through Yogamāyā to please Kṛṣṇa?"
Gour Govinda Swami: : Yeah. Because Rādhārāṇī is the chief. Hlādinī-śakti, is pleasure giving potency. And all energies, śakti tattvas, are expansions of Rādhārāṇī, as all Viṣṇu tattvas are expansions of Kṛṣṇa.
Also, jīva is Vibhinnāṁśa, differentiated part, but part.
mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [BG 15.7]
Fifteen-chapter Bhagavad Gita says. Eh? jīva sanātanaḥ, eternally My part. But what type of part? Differentiated part.
There are two types of parts are there, Svāṁśa, Vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa is what's it? Plenary portions. And Vibhinnāṁśa, differentiated. Separated portions.
Similarly, this yog, Mahāmāyā or illusory energy, it is separated, external. Though it is part, expansion of Rādhārāṇī. But separated.
Devotee: So, so this is Yogamāyā that is covering Vrindavan. Yeah. Yogamāyā that is-
Gour Govinda Swami: : Yes, Vrindavan.
Devotee: covering Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Is that the same Yogamāyā that is coming to captivate.
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh, same Yogamāyā means internal energy, superior energy, not material energy. Material energy is Mahāmāyā, Durgā.
Devotee: But it's the same Yogamāyā?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh, same Yogamāyā. Same Yogamāyā. Yes. Same Yogamāyā. Uh.
Devotee: I have one question here Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta says" Radha is the source of all individual souls whose function is to be employed in the service of Kṛṣṇa." Mm. "The individual souls serve Kṛṣṇa as constituents of Sri Radhika." Mm. "All souls are spiritual females in a subordinate position to Radha." And he says, "Whose service of Kṛṣṇa is naturally shared by the nature of constituents." Mm. So what does that... It says, "They're in a subordinate position to Radha-" Mm. -and whose service to Kṛṣṇa naturally they share by their position of constituents."
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: So that means that automatically one who is in service of Radha, Rādhārāṇī is, is shared by the jīvas?
Gour Govinda Swami: I, uh, we are discussing that thing yesterday. ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ. How you serve Kṛṣṇa under Rādhārāṇī, as Rādhārāṇī gives pleasure to Kṛṣṇa. This Radha's Kṛṣṇa.
Unless you get the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, you cannot serve Kṛṣṇa. You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa also. Yes.
Devotee: He says, "The object- The endeavor of the jīva is to learn to obey Sri Radhika.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: We obeying her instructions
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Clear. Clear. Because you cannot approach Kṛṣṇa without Rādhārāṇī 's mercy. Yes. Radhar Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: But here it says they, they naturally share her service by their nature as constituents.
Gour Govinda Swami: Naturally?
Devotee: They naturally share-
Gour Govinda Swami: Jīva.
Devotee: Jīva, yes. Then he said all souls are spiritual females. Yes. In a subordinate position to Radha.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Śakti means female. Prakriti means female.
Devotee: So They share her service to Kṛṣṇa by their nature as constituents.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Natural constituent females, yes. They are the natural constituent of females. Kṛṣṇa is only purusa, only male. Yes. Yes.
Um, purusa means male. Purusa means enjoyer. Yes, only enjoyer. Yes. Male enjoys the female. Yes.
Devotee: So, when one becomes completely pure, then automatically his-
Gour Govinda Swami: Automatically, yes ...
Devotee: service is, uh-
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes, yes ... rendered to Radha. To renders, yes.
Devotee: But it means only for the pure souls?
Gour Govinda Swami: Only pure soul. Pure soul means pure soul, not, uh, impure soul. Conditioned soul means impure soul.
So impure soul also cannot utter the name of Lord. Only pure soul utters the name of Lord. harīnām śuddha-jīvātmāra buddhi, that they say. Only pure soul can utter the name of Lord, pure name. Impure soul cannot.
What he utters, he utters only alphabets. Alphabets only. Ra ma, Kṛṣ ṇa, only alphabets, or the word available in the dictionary, abhidhānī śabda. Isn't it? In dictionary you'll find the word Ram, Kṛṣṇa, but it's not different... But pure name is not different from Kṛṣṇa. abhinnatā nāma-nāminoḥ.
But these words available in dictionary is not Kṛṣṇa or Ram. It is not pure name. It's abhidhānī śabda words available in dictionary or alphabets. akṣara bāhya nāma nāhi laya Only alphabets are coming, but name is not there.
Devotee: That is Nāma-aparādha.
Gour Govinda Swami: That is Nāma-aparādha. Yes, Nāma-aparādha. Yes. This is tattva. Thank you. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Garuda is the son of... hmm? Vinata.
Devotee: Vinata.
Gour Govinda Swami: Vinata is his mother. Huh? Kasyapa is father. Isn't it? Kasyapa is the father and Vinata is the mother.
Devotee: His-
Gour Govinda Swami: Their son, Garuda.
Devotee: Eternal associate.
Gour Govinda Swami: It's carrier of live children. Carrier of Lord Visnu. Yes. One of the name is Vainateya.
Devotee: Son of Vinata.
Gour Govinda Swami: Son of Vinata. Oh. And Kadru, his sons are all serpents.
Devotee: Food for Garuda.
Gour Govinda Swami: Food for Garuda. (laughs) Yes. Because Kadru and Vinata, they are co-wives. Sapatnī So they all always quarrel. Enmity. Enemical. Enemical. Yeah. Who is that? Oh. Oh.
Devotee: Guru Maharaj?
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: It is says, "Unless one takes proper shelter of the holy name-"
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: ... he cannot be relieved from the offensive stage of chanting.
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: Now, what does that mean to properly take shelter of the holy name?
Gour Govinda Swami: Complete shelter. Complete shelter. Yes. pūrṇa sampūrṇa śaraṇāgati complete shelter. Not partial, not artificial. Yes.
Devotee: Can you elaborate? What does it mean?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh, how you can be free from these offenses Nāma-aparādha. It is said in Hari-nāma-cintāmaṇi, If you constantly chant without deviation the holy name, by the mercy of holy name, you'll be freed from the offenses. Nāma-aparādha
Devotee: Constantly chant?
Gour Govinda Swami: Constant.
Devotee: Means all the time.
Gour Govinda Swami: All the time. Every moment. Don't forget, Mahaprabhu said, sarva-kṣaṇa bolo sarva-kṣaṇa every moment. Ahor-niśa 24 hour, day and night. ki svapne, ki jāgaraṇe, ki śayane, kibā bhojane.
All conditions. Waking condition, dreaming condition, sleeping condition. Even while taking food. man-manā bhava, as Kṛṣṇa says. man-manā bhava That means man-manā bhava, I will have. Always think of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Then one can become free from Aparad?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Nothing is there in mind, only Kṛṣṇa is there. Is man-manā bhava Example is Gopis. man-manā bhava Nothing. Gopi never think of anything, only Kṛṣṇa, only Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Is there any other means to become free from Aparadhs?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is said in Hari-nāma-cintāmaṇi.
Devotee: That is the only means, there's no other means?
Gour Govinda Swami: No other means. And you are conscious of Aparadh, you'll never commit consciously. Now you are conscious.
When you accept a guru he was talking this thing about 10 Nāma-aparādhā. Now you'll never can consciously commit any Nāma-aparādhā, rather eradicate one after another. Yes.
Otherwise, how can you, how can you chant pure name and how can you get Kṛṣṇa? Your name is Kṛṣṇa non different for Kṛṣṇa abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ That is pure name. And that will give you frame in which Kṛṣṇa is bound of. That means Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Who said this, Guru Maharaj?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: nāma-nāminoḥ abhinna??
Gour Govinda Swami: There is no difference between name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa himself.
Devotee: who said this?
Gour Govinda Swami: abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ That is... Oh, what do you say?
kṛṣṇa-nāma cintāmaṇi, anādi, cinmaya yei kṛṣṇa sei nāma, eka-tattva haya [Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi – Chapter 2 verse 13]
Devotee: Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Gour Govinda Swami: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And also that verse is there,
nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto ’bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ [CC Madhya 17.133]
That verse is there.
Devotee: caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
Gour Govinda Swami: caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
Devotee: pūrṇaḥ śuddho
Gour Govinda Swami: pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ That verse. That is the verse. No difference between name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa himself. The same thing is said in general.
kṛṣṇa-nāma cintāmaṇi, anādi, cinmaya yei kṛṣṇa sei nāma, eka-tattva haya
Devotee: So, if one chants constantly, even one is performing some other activities-
Gour Govinda Swami: What is that?
Devotee: ... his attention may not be completely there, so that will not be Nāma-aparādhā, that would not be inattentive chanting? That doesn't fall under Nāma-aparādhā?
Gour Govinda Swami: You see, chanting means you may have to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa like loudly. In your mind you are chanting, that means thinking also. Thinking. Smaraṇa Not loudly. What do you say? Not loudly. What do you say in English? What is not loud?
Devotee: Silently.
Gour Govinda Swami: Silently. Yes. Silently.
Devotee: Silent, uttering silently.
Gour Govinda Swami: uttering silently. Yes.
Devotee: And that means?
Gour Govinda Swami: That means remembering in the mind, in the mind.
Devotee: That is part of constant chanting?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Constant chanting.
Devotee: And even though you may be doing something and not chanting with full attention, that will not be inattentive chanting?
Gour Govinda Swami: You're doing something, you are thinking, "I am doing for Kṛṣṇa."And sometimes also do, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Sometimes say, sometimes say, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," thinking and sometimes in utter.
Devotee: So that offense of inattentive chanting is when you actually chant Japa?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: That is doing... that is chanting.
Gour Govinda Swami: When Chanting in the bead.
Devotee: But if you're chanting, uh, in your mind, you may be also doing your work and chant-
Gour Govinda Swami: That's not offense.
Devotee: There is aparadh
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no. When you chant with the bead...
Devotee: I want to clarify.
Gour Govinda Swami: With the bead, yes. With the bead, yes. That's not aparadh. No.
That is you are, are forgetting Kṛṣṇa. You're always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You're, um, in contact of Kṛṣṇa and doing this thing for Kṛṣṇa, nothing else. That you are not forgetting Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: So if you... let's say you are working, building something and then you're-
Gour Govinda Swami: That's right.
Devotee: ... singing at the same time-
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, sometimes.
Devotee: ... there is no aparadh in that?
Gour Govinda Swami: No. We say, "Mukh me naam, hath me kaam." Name should be there in your lips and work, should be engaged in work. That we say, "Mukh me naam, hath me kaam." What difficulty is there?
Devotee: No.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mukh me naam, hath me kaam.
Devotee: Mukh me naam, hath me kaam.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mukh me naam, hath me kaam. Huh? Your works... your hands are engaged in work and name is coming out from the mouth. So, name is there in the lips.
Simultaneously, name is there and work is here. Mukh me naam, hath me kaam. We have such saying. It's constantly, constantly chanting and uttering the names. Who is it?
Devotee: Names includes... like sometimes, uh, very often the prayers that we chant in the morning might come to the mind.
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Name? Yes, name. The prayers were offering prayer to Kṛṣṇa, concerning Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Jagannath, Gaura, Nitai, Bala Ram. Like this. They're all names of Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Hmm. Hmm. So, hmm. Yes. Yes.
Hari-nāma-cintāmaṇi, has said this thing. This is the process how you'll be free from Nāma-aparādhā. sarva-kṣaṇa nāma laya, sarva-kṣaṇa nāma laya. Give a moment. Take-
Devotee: Even says you should increase from 16 rounds to 32, then 64, then, uh, 300,000 names. Like hundreds... in Hari-nāma-cintāmaṇi it's mentioned like that.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. It is not imitation. Like you, you cannot imitate Haridas Thakur. Guru, guru knows you cannot do it.
Bhakti Siddhanta says 64. Why Prabhupāda, Bhaktivedanta Swami says, "Oh, no, 16" Why? Because you cannot do it.
Devotee: The mind is...
Gour Govinda Swami: The mind is so fickle. You see, stupid mind, you cannot do it. Oh.
Devotee: What, you think it's all day, the chanting, uh, inattentively and not doing anything?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Haridas Thakur never does anything. Only chants. Never sleeps, never eats, nothing. He a siddha deha.
Devotee: Spiritual body.
Gour Govinda Swami: Spiritual body. There is no demand for ahāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna No need at all. No need for eating, sleeping, defending, meeting. No.
this body gives us so much trouble. You see? Yes, we'll eat and we'll sleep, go and pass stool and urine, take bath. So many time is got, you see? So much time this body gives such trouble.
We would have done so much work. This thing is not there. Sleeping is there. Oh, I'm tired, I must sleep. I'm hungry, I must eat, I must drink. Then I'll go to pass, to pass stool and urine. Then cleaning body. So much time.
So much time is there is spent you see. I always think of this word, this nonsense. So much time I'm spending in these activities. Huh? Sleeping, eating, huh? Cleaning, passing stool, urine. Oh, nasty, very nasty body.
I would have done so much. Work is there to do for Kṛṣṇa. I cannot do. I cannot do. What shall I do? You see?
Devotee: So when you say that the Gosvāmī is like Raghunatha Das Gosvāmī, he would even forget to, to sleep or to eat, it means siddha deha.
Gour Govinda Swami: Siddha deha.
Devotee: Otherwise, it is not possible.
Gour Govinda Swami: How can it be possible? Siddha deha.
Devotee: Just taking a little of, uh, buttermilk, a few drops.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Just to maintain the body and just-
Gour Govinda Swami: Eh, no need at all. Just to, just to pay honor to maha prasad. He's paying a honor, Sammāna.
Devotee: A few drops.
Gour Govinda Swami: Kṛṣṇa always... Mahaprabhu always sends maha prasad, Jagannath prasad to Haridas Thakur. He pays obeisance, take one grain, yes. Just to honor. Just to honor. Yes, honor prasad. Honoring prasad. Yes. Siddha deha. They have spiritual body, no need at all.
Devotee: Maharaj.
Gour Govinda Swami: That would... that question of increase means when you develop taste. Nāmāmṛta, the nectar coming out from that holy name w-when you taste it.
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ. What he say? prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam Isn't it?
Ana- When that ocean of ananda... Pleasure, cheerfulness, bliss, transcendental bliss, ocean of transcendental bliss there in name. When that you'll inundate yourself in that ocean of transcendental bliss, you cannot cease.
Oh, I am... such nectar. I am drowning myself in this ocean of nectar, such transcendental bliss. Why shall I get, get out of it? Then automatically you'll go on chanting, chanting, chanting 24 hours. It is not imitation. It is natural.
Devotee: The question of increase comes th- uh, then.
Gour Govinda Swami: That is natural.
Devotee: Otherwise, one should not artificially increase.
Gour Govinda Swami: Artificially, you commit aparadh only. Only commit aparadh. It's natural.
When that ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ, eh, when that ocean is swelling up, welling up, huh, ocean of transcendental bliss and you are tasting it. Oh, no satisfaction. "No, I'll taste more, more, more. No, no, no, no, more. I won’t leave my japa mala. I won’t to leave." Chant. Go on chanting. Yes.
Otherwise, how can you do it? (laughing) It is not that easy. Quite an effort. Then automatically it increase. There is automatic increase. Automatic.
So guru says, "Only chant 16 rounds nicely." Yes we cannot chant 16 rounds, we are so rascal, stupid mind. Huh? Even we cannot comp- chant 16 rounds. Isn't it? Can you? Are you doing? (laughing) You see? Not easy to hear about.
Devotee: Jaya Gurudev.
Gour Govinda Swami: Haribol. Haribol. Jaya Srila Prabhupad.