Transcription made by: Deekshita mataji, Ananya
Gour Govinda Swami: I am very happy to meet you all here. You have all come here to take part in hari-saṅkīrtana, isn't it? Please come up to the front. Come on, come close, come close. I think you all know why we do hari-saṅkīrtana, and what is the need of hari-saṅkīrtana, isn't it? What's your name, please?
Devotee: My name is Michael.
Gour Govinda Swami: Michael. Mr. Michael, you know why we do hari-saṅkīrtana, and what is its need? You know? Are you doing some hari-saṅkīrtana? Yes? Are you doing some hari-saṅkīrtana, Mr. Michael?
Devotee: Sometimes, sometimes.
Gour Govinda Swami: You do something. So why do you do it? What is the need of it? Hmm? Yes?
Devotee: To propagate love of God.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. To get love of God, isn't it? Isn't it? You want, you all want here, some ānanda, isn't it? Blissfulness, happiness, cheerfulness, enjoyment, isn't it? All want it, isn't it?
And we do hari-saṅkīrtana only for that purpose: to get some enjoyment, get some happiness, get some cheerfulness, and blissfulness. That is the only purpose of doing hari-saṅkīrtana. You are reading Śrīla Prabhupāda's books?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: His books?
Devotee: Yeah, a lot of them. Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta—many, many books my revered spiritual master has written in English. All are Vedic literature. And he has stressed in those books to do hari-saṅkīrtana. You know Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Mr. Michael? Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu?
Devotee: Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: You know? Isn't it? Do you know Him? Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Śrīla Prabhupāda has mentioned Him in his books many times. Yes. Who is He? What do you know about Him? Hmm?
Devotee: A perfect devotee.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Nityānanda Mahārāja is a perfect devotee.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, He is a perfect devotee. You understand? He is not Kṛṣṇa? He's not Kṛṣṇa? Yes?
Devotee: Can you tell me?
Devotee: Yes, Mahārāja.
Gour Govinda Swami: He's Kṛṣṇa. Mr. Michael, He's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa came 5,000 years ago, in His own svarūpa. Kṛṣṇa's form is there. His form, Gopāla, is there.
So, in His Bhagavad-gītā—this Bhagavad-gītā, most of you know, it's a very popular book, Prabhupāda's book. And He gave His message in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. He gave it, this message, Bhagavad-gītā, through Arjuna to all mankind. To all human beings He gave this message. There He gave confidential, more confidential, and the most confidential instruction, isn't it? The most confidential instruction. Hmm.
So, He said:
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
pratijāne priyo ’si me
[BG 18.65]
sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
[BG 18.66]
(5:10-6:08, Transcription missing)
He gave all these things. Then at the end of Dvāpara-yuga, He wound up all His līlā—pastimes. He went back to His abode in the spiritual kingdom, His abode Goloka Vṛndāvana. But He was thinking there. Do you understand, Mr. Michael? He was thinking there.
Goloka Vṛndāvana, yes. He went there. He was thinking there, ‘Oh, I gave confidential, more confidential, and the most confidential instruction through Arjuna to all mankind, but how many can understand this thing? How many can understand this thing?’
Again, after this Dvāpara-yuga, Kali-yuga came. This Kali-yuga is the most sinful age, the most degraded age. All are engaged in sinful activities, isn't it? What are those sinful activities?
Devotee: Sense gratification.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, fish-eating, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex. These are the four pillars of sinful activity, and all are engaged, especially in the West. It's very, very strong here. All are engaged. All are engaged, isn't it? Wherever you go, look at all these things: liquor, buffets. What is it?
Devotee: Roast beef.
Gour Govinda Swami: Roast beef, cold wine, beer, roast chicken. So many things. So many big, big billboards. All are engaged. Such a sinful age, Kali-yuga, most sinful, all are engaged. Consciousness is so low.
People are eating stool. Think of eating stool; sense gratification means eating stool. How can they understand what I say? The most confidential instruction should be understood in tattva. If somebody is very intelligent, fortunate, and wise, if he can understand this thing and practice it in his own life, then he will get real ānanda. Happiness, blissfulness, cheerfulness, enjoyment. His life will be successful. He will achieve supreme perfection in his life. But how many can understand this thing? It is not possible. When they're eating stool, how can they understand the taste of nectar?
When a hog—the hog is eating stool and enjoying. Hog is eating stool and enjoying. He's in the midst of stool, a great mountain, a hill-like pile of stool, and enjoying. And he's saying, ‘These human beings are so foolish. They're not eating such a nice thing as I am eating. They're eating something else.’ Do you understand me, Mr. Michael? The hog is thinking so. By eating stool, he's enjoying.
So Kṛṣṇa in His abode is thinking like that: ‘People, in this Kali-yuga, human beings, they are all engaged in all sinful activities, sense enjoyment—that's eating stool. How can they understand what I say? How can they understand what is real bliss, real blissfulness, real ānanda, real happiness, and real enjoyment?’ They cannot understand.
‘Only I have said it theoretically. I have not practically demonstrated how to surrender.’ Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [BG 18.66]
What does it say? The last thing: ‘Just surrender unto Me.’ He said, ‘Only I theoretically said it. I have not practically demonstrated how to surrender.’ Example is better than precept, isn't it? It's a popular saying, yes. Example is better than precept. Theoretical saying will not do, unless I practically demonstrate how to surrender. So, I have to go again. I have to go again.
So, He came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So, He came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the perfect devotee, as you say. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He didn't come as Kṛṣṇa. He came as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, a perfect devotee.
And a devotee is who? He is he who is completely surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa. He is a devotee. He is always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava, as Kṛṣṇa has said: man-manā bhava. He is always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa. He never, he never thinks of anything else than Kṛṣṇa. His mind is fixed. His mind is firmly fixed in Kṛṣṇa, in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. He always thinks of Him. He never thinks of anything else. And really He gets pleasure, happiness, enjoyment, and blissfulness.
So, in order to practically demonstrate, Kṛṣṇa came as Mahāprabhu, Śrīman Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And what did He do? He chanted His holy name:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Always He was chanting, dancing, and surrounded with His dear devotees. Not alone. You understand? Not alone. Thereby, He was teaching us. Thereby, He is teaching us how to absorb ourselves completely in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, and get real ānanda—real happiness, real pleasure, and real enjoyment.
Why? Kṛṣṇa is the source of ānanda. All pleasure, all ānanda, all happiness, and all enjoyment. Sac-cid-ānanda, isn't it?
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
[BS 5.1]
Isn't it?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. My Guru Mahārāja has quoted this from Brahma-saṁhitā many times in his books. Are you reading his books, Mr. Michael? Yes? You must know this thing:
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
Kṛṣṇa is Parameśvara, Supreme īśvara, the Supreme Controller. He is sac-cid-ānandamaya-vigraha. San-maya, cin-maya, ānandamaya. That means full of eternality, full of knowledge, full of pleasure, and full of blissfulness. That is ānanda.
He is the source of pleasure, the source of blissfulness. Ānanda is Kṛṣṇa. Do you understand, Mr. Michael? If you connect yourself, and attach yourself constantly with that Kṛṣṇa, then you will get real ānanda—happiness, pleasure, and blissfulness. Otherwise, you cannot get it.
So that Kṛṣṇa taught us in the form of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how we should be constantly attached to Kṛṣṇa by chanting His holy name:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
This is saṅkīrtana. Therefore, I say, what is the need of this hari-saṅkīrtana? To get this ānanda.
saṅkīrtana haite pāpa-saṁsāra-nāśana citta-śuddhi
sarva-bhakti-sādhana-udgama
[CC Antya 20.13]
Mahāprabhu says, if you do this hari-saṅkīrtana, all your sinful reactions will be destroyed. Not only yours; those who will take part in this hari-saṅkīrtana, all their sinful reactions will be destroyed. Then, citta-śuddhi—your heart will be cleansed of all material contaminations.
Oh, it will be cleansed of all material contaminations. The heart will be purified! Purified heart. Sarva-bhakti-sādhana-udgama. Then you will really come to this path of bhakti: serving, rendering, or offering loving service unto Kṛṣṇa.
Who are you, Mr. Michael? What is your real identity? Yes? Tell me.
Devotee: Jīva?
Gour Govinda Swami: Jīva. Yes. What is jīvera svarūpa? Mahāprabhu said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said:
jīvera svarūpa haya—kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa [CC Madhya 20.108]
Isn't it? You say that you are a jīva. That's all right. What is your svarūpa? What is your real identity? Kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa. You are an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Eternal servant.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. That Mahāprabhu said: ‘You are an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.’ Do you understand, Mr. Michael? You don't know this. You have forgotten this thing. He told you this thing.
So, if you do saṅkīrtana, hari-saṅkīrtana, if you will be engaged in this hari-saṅkīrtana that Mahāprabhu started—
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
—with the devotees, with the dear devotees of Mahāprabhu, then your heart will be purified, and your consciousness will be purified. All your sinful reactions will be destroyed. And your consciousness will be purified and will be developed. You will attain the highest level of consciousness, that is complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be engaged in the loving service of Kṛṣṇa.
Thereby you see:
kṛṣṇa-premodgama, premāmṛta-āsvādana
kṛṣṇa-prāpti, sevāmṛta-samudre majjana
[CC Antya 20.14]
That, Mahāprabhu says. Then you will get Kṛṣṇa. That, Kṛṣṇa says:
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
pratijāne priyo ’si me
[BG 18.65]
The most confidential instruction: ‘Think of Me without deviation. Every moment, don't forget Me. Keep Me in your mind. Drive out all other thoughts from your mind. Just think of Me’—the thought of Kṛṣṇa.
That is constant yoga, constant yoga. Attach yourself constantly with Kṛṣṇa. That is yoga. Training of the mind is yoga. The mind is very fickle. Stupid mind! Stubborn mind! Disobedient mind! Very fickle! Very wicked mind! Mad mind! Isn't it, Mr. Michael?
Devotee: Absolutely.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, absolutely. Such a wicked mind, this duṣṭa manaḥ, stupid mind. How is it so fickle? You think we're sitting here, but our mind is running hither and thither, in so many ways, isn't it? So difficult.
But Mahāprabhu gave us a very easy method, a very easy method: how to control this stupid mind and keep it fixed with Kṛṣṇa by chanting this holy name. So, it's nice. So sweet:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.
If you chant under the guidance of a very dear devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in the association of such devotees of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Mr. Michael, then you will very easily develop this. Your mind will be fixed. Your mind will be fixed. And gradually you will elevate yourself to that stage and level of complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will relish how sweet it is.
How sweet, how nectarean it is, this holy name of the Lord: premāmṛta-samudre-majjana. At that time, you will inundate yourself in the ocean of that nectar, that nectar, that blissfulness. Such is the effect of this hari-saṅkīrtana. So, we do hari-saṅkīrtana. Mm.
Because in this world all want ānanda, all want enjoyment, and all want blissfulness, isn't it? Because as you say, we are jīva, we are the spirit soul.
mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [BG 15.7]
In the fifteenth chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says this thing, isn't it? The jīva is eternally My part and parcel, isn't it? My part and parcel. As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda, so you are sac-cid-ānanda as a jīva, isn't it, Mr. Michael?
Devotee: Eternal soul.
Gour Govinda Swami: Isn't it? As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda, and you being His eternal part and parcel, are you not sac-cid-ānanda? Can't you understand me?
Devotee: Yes. I hope so.
Gour Govinda Swami: As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda and you being His eternal part and parcel, are you not so?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. We are sac-cid-ānanda. But He is completely full, while we are minute, isn't it? So, we want ānanda because we are His eternal parts. He is completely sac-cid-ānanda, so we want ānanda here, in this material world.
In this material world there is no ānanda at all. It's completely the opposite: asat. That is sat, cit, ānandamaya; this is asat, acit, nirānandamaya. The complete opposite, this is. This is temporary. This is not eternal. And this is full of ignorance: no knowledge at all, no light at all, only darkness and ignorance, darkness and ignorance here. And no ānanda: no enjoyment, no pleasure, and no happiness. Only miserable, isn't it? duḥkhālayam [BG 8.15].
This material world is such a platform. It is filled with all-misery, all-unhappiness, all-pain, and all-suffering only. No enjoyment, no pleasure, and no happiness. Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
But as we are the eternal part and parcel of that sac-cid-ānanda-maya-vigraha Kṛṣṇa, we are searching for that thing. We are always searching: how to get ānanda? How to get that ānanda? How to get that ānanda, isn't it?
You know Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Mr. Michael? Yes. My Guru Mahārāja has written the Bhāgavatam in English. Have you got some books?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes? Are you reading them? You should read every day one verse from Bhagavad-gītā and its translation, Śrīla Prabhupāda's purport. Similarly, one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's translation and Prabhupāda's purport. And come to the temple. Are you going to the temple here in Miami?
Devotee: Yes, yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. There is a daily, daily Bhāgavata pāṭha-pravacana provision you should hear. Then you can understand, Mr. Michael. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said:
harir hi sākṣād bhagavān śarīriṇām
ātmā jhaṣāṇām iva toyam īpsitam
[SB 5.18.13]
Do you follow me, Mr. Michael? The Bhāgavatam says: harir hi sākṣād bhagavān śarīriṇām ātmā jhaṣāṇām iva toyam īpsitam. That means—jhaṣa means fish, an aquatic animal. A fish. Do you know a fish?
Devotee: Fish.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, an aquatic animal, an aquatic animal.
Devotee: Aquatic animal. Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: It lives in the water. If you take a fish out of water, bring it to your house here, to your room here, and put him in a very comfortable—
Devotee: Aquarium.
Gour Govinda Swami: —comfortable place, with a velvet cushion, a nice air-conditioned room, and all sorts of comfort. You put him there. Still, he will not be happy, isn't it? Still, he'll not be happy. You'll make all sorts of comfortable arrangements for him; still he'll not be happy. He needs something. What is that?
Devotee: Water.
Gour Govinda Swami: toyam īpsitam. Water. There you are, mother. Yes. He needs water. He needs water. toya. toya means water, because water is his natural environment, his natural environment. If you put him in the water, he'll be so happy. He'll be so happy, so pleased.
Similarly, the jīva, the spirit soul, being the eternal part and parcel of that sac-cid-ānanda-maya vigrahaḥ, Kṛṣṇa, he is sac-cid-ānanda. But he is now here in this material world, a conditioned soul, forgetting Kṛṣṇa. He is in search of that ānanda because he is sac-cid-ānanda. But he is out of that environment which is an all-pleasurable, all-blissful environment.
And that is what? harir hi sākṣād bhagavān śarīriṇām ātmā. The environment of Lord Hari. The environment of Lord Hari—that is an all-blissful environment, that is an all-pleasing environment, a pleasurable environment. Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
That jīva needs it. And if you will be put in that natural environment of Hari, then he will get happiness. He will get pleasure. He will get blissfulness. So Mahāprabhu came and introduced that thing, by introducing this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare,
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.
Singing, dancing, chanting, playing karatāla, and playing mṛdaṅga:
ghana ghana tāhe jhājera rol 'tāthaī tāthaī bājalo khol,
'tāthaī tāthaī bājalo khol, ghana ghana tāhe jhājera rol
[Aruṇodaya Kīrtana, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura]
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.
Dancing, chanting, and playing musical instruments—khola, karatāla. So nice, so pleasing. So enjoying. Do you take part in such enjoyment and blissfulness of hari-saṅkīrtana?
Devotee: Sometimes.
Gour Govinda Swami: No, you should always do that thing, Mr. Michael. Yes. Don't you want ānanda? Don't you want pleasure? Don't you want blissfulness and enjoyment?
Then Mahāprabhu taught us this thing. This is the real thing. Thereby you will constantly attach yourself with that source of all pleasure, enjoyment, and blissfulness, who is Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda, isn't it? That is the easy way. A very easy way.
So, you are like a fish out of water. You're out of that natural enjoyment, natural atmosphere, and natural environment of Lord Hari. You need that environment of Hari. And He creates this environment of Hari by this hari-saṅkīrtana. That is why we do hari-saṅkīrtana. That is why we do hari-saṅkīrtana.
Then that environment will be created; that atmosphere will be created, and will be there. So, there will be no misery at all, and no suffering at all. It's all blissfulness, all enjoyment, all happiness, all pleasure, and all ānanda. Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
So Mahāprabhu came, and He's always thinking; therefore He says: man-manā bhava—‘Think of Me.’ This mind is the most important thing. The most important thing is the mind, the stupid mind. Therefore, He said, ‘Keep Me in your mind.’ If you keep Kṛṣṇa, if you keep Kṛṣṇa every moment in your mind, think of Him, utter His name, chant His name, speak about Him, and engage all your senses in the service of that sac-cid-ānanda-maya-vigraha Kṛṣṇa, then you will be completely absorbed in that blissfulness, transcendental pleasure, ānanda, blissfulness, cheerfulness, and enjoyment. Yes. That is easy.
How to think of Him always? Is it a very easy thing? Can you think of Kṛṣṇa always, every moment? The mind is so fickle, so stupid. You cannot.
Though Kṛṣṇa says this thing, and Mahāprabhu—He came as Mahāprabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as you say in your language, a perfect devotee—though He says this thing, that is an order. That is the order of Mahāprabhu. Do you understand what He says?
bala kṛṣṇa, bhaja kṛṣṇa, gāo kṛṣṇa-nāma
kṛṣṇa vinu keha kichu nā bhāviha āna
[Caitanya-bhāgavata, 2.28.26]
Why don't you chant it? You get pleasure. Don't you chant? Don't you sing songs, Mr. Michael? When he's in a very happy mood, he sings songs, isn't it? Yes. Why don't you say yes, Mr. Michael? When he is in a happy mood, he sings songs. Mahāprabhu sang songs and said, ‘How can you be in a happy mood always?’ No moroseness. You understand? A very happy mood:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
He says: bala kṛṣṇa, bhaja kṛṣṇa, gāo kṛṣṇa-nāma, kṛṣṇa vinu keha kichu nā bhāviha āna. Don't think of anything else than Kṛṣṇa. Utter the name of Kṛṣṇa. Think of Kṛṣṇa always. Chant the name of Kṛṣṇa.
man-manā bhava—what Kṛṣṇa says, Mahāprabhu said the same thing. Practically demonstrating, He was doing that thing and saying it, not just theoretically saying it:
yadi āmā’-prati sneha thāke sabākāra
tabe kṛṣṇa-vyatirikta nā gāibe āra
[Caitanya-bhāgavata, 2.28.27]
Do you understand, Mr. Michael? You love Mahāprabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Mr. Michael?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, there you are. You love Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu says: yadi āmāya prati sneha thāke—‘If you really love Me, so you should love My words’, isn't it, Michael?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: It's true.
Speaker 2: True. Yes, true. That's true. Yes.
yadi āmā’-prati sneha thāke sabākāra
tabe kṛṣṇa-vyatirikta nā gāibe āra
Mahāprabhu said: ‘If you really love Me, so you must love My instruction, what I say: kṛṣṇa-vyatirikta nā gāibe.’ Don't chant anything but Kṛṣṇa. Don't think of anything but Kṛṣṇa. Don't sing anything but Kṛṣṇa, because this is the source of all pleasure, blissfulness, happiness, enjoyment, and cheerfulness.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, that He wants. And He's giving a very—Mahāprabhu is giving you a very easy process. Then He says:
ki śayane, ki bhojane, kibā jāgaraṇe
aharniśa cinta kṛṣṇa, balaha vadane
[Caitanya-bhāgavata, 2.28.28]
Do you understand, Mr. Michael, what Mahāprabhu says? aharniśa—both day and night, 24 hours. How many hours? How many hours out of 24 hours are you doing hari-kīrtana? Not even one hour, isn't it, Mr. Michael? Not even one hour a day doing hari-saṅkīrtana.
Devotee: I'm working hard.
Gour Govinda Swami: What? Working like an ass. Oh, working like an ass! Toiling hard like an ass. Mr. Michael is toiling hard like an ass: gardabhera mata āmi kari pariśrama. Like an ass, toiling? Why are you toiling so hard like an ass, becoming a human being, Mr. Michael?
You should understand this thing: aharniśa cinta kṛṣṇa, balaha vadane, Mahāprabhu says. You love Mahāprabhu, you say; why don't you love His words?
ki śayane, ki bhojane, kibā jāgaraṇe. In wakefulness. In the wakeful condition, sleeping condition, dreaming condition—all conditions. Even while you are taking food, prasāda, utter the name of Kṛṣṇa, and think of Kṛṣṇa day and night, 24 hours. Then you will be always in that atmosphere, that environment of blissfulness, ānanda. Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, that is the source. Kṛṣṇa is the source of ānanda, sac-cid-ānanda. Thereby, if you constantly attach yourself, and fix your mind with Kṛṣṇa, then you will get ānanda. Real, transcendental—that is transcendental cheerfulness, blissfulness, happiness, and enjoyment and pleasure. Not material.
There is no question in this material world, no question of enjoyment. It is all misery, all suffering, and all unhappiness. duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [BG 8.15]. In Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa said this thing: duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam.
This material world is a miserable place where there are these four kinds of misery. What are those miseries? Don't you know? Four kinds: birth, death, old age, and disease:
janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [BG 13.9]
Isn't it? Birth, death, old age, and disease. These are the four types of miseries, the painful situation in this material world. No, no happiness, no pleasure here. No enjoyment here. And it is temporary. It is not eternal; this is temporary: aśāśvatam, isn't it, Mr. Michael?
In the Gītā, if you are reading Bhagavad-gītā, you should read it very nicely, and minutely understand it also. Come to the temple and hear. Hearing is most important. Then you can understand very well, Mr. Michael. Why don't you say yes? You're not saying yes, Mr. Michael. It says:
ye hi saṁsparśa-jā bhogā duḥkha-yonaya eva te
ādy-antavantaḥ kaunteya na teṣu ramate budhaḥ
[BG 5.22]
Kṛṣṇa says that. Sense enjoyment—saṁsparśa-jā bhogā means sense enjoyment. You get some sort of enjoyment through your senses, your material senses. Sense enjoyment. What is that? It is ādy-antavantaḥ—it is fleeting.
Devotee: Fleeting.
Gour Govinda Swami: Fleeting, fleeting. Very, very temporary. duḥkha-yonayaḥ—it is the outcome of unlimited misery. That is what the Gītā says: duḥkha-yonayaḥ. Something whose outcome is unlimited misery, is it really enjoyment, is it really pleasurable? Whose outcome is unlimited misery?
Devotee: No.
Gour Govinda Swami: No. In the beginning, for a very little, very short time, some sort of pleasure and enjoyment may be there, but its outcome is unlimited misery: duḥkha-yonayaḥ. So how can you say that it is pleasing? It is happiness? No.
na teṣu ramate budhaḥ—one who is a real wise man, a learned person, an intelligent man, he never runs after it. He knows this is not at all pleasurable. This is not at all happiness. It's all miserable, whose outcome is unlimited misery.
What is eternal? Eternal pleasure, eternal happiness, eternal blissfulness, and eternal enjoyment, whose outcome is that at the beginning, middle, and end, everything is blissfulness and enjoyment. Happiness. That is to constantly be in contact with Kṛṣṇa. That is what it is.
So those who are real learned, real wise, and real intelligent, they run after it. They constantly keep themselves engaged in that hari-saṅkīrtana.
Devotee: I understand.
Gour Govinda Swami: hari-saṅkīrtana:
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
And they are in the ocean of—in the ocean of blissfulness, drowning. They're drowning in the ocean of blissfulness: kṛṣṇa-premāmṛta-samudre-majjana.
Devotee: kṛṣṇa-prema.
Gour Govinda Swami: amṛta-samudre-majjana. Drowning. Drowning in that ocean of kṛṣṇa-prema. Do you understand, Mr. Michael?
But you are—you have been drowning yourself in what sort of, what type of ocean? A very dreadful, painful ocean of material existence, isn't it?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Now, Mahāprabhu offers you this chance, this opportunity to drown yourself in the ocean of kṛṣṇa-prema, all-blissfulness, transcendental blissfulness. Enjoyment, cheerfulness, and happiness. That is what it is. That Kṛṣṇa came as Mahāprabhu. He said this thing.
Then this is a very easy process: under the guidance of a dear devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, gaura-priya-jana. gaura-priya—who is very dear to Gaurāṅga Mahāprabhu. Under his guidance. Under his guidance, if you do hari-saṅkīrtana, and are engaged in this hari-saṅkīrtana, then from your whole [audio cut 44:21] existence in the material ocean, still, you forget everything. You can forget everything. Otherwise, you cannot. You cannot.
And Mahāprabhu came and He said this thing; not only said it, He Himself observed and practiced it in His life, always chanting, dancing, and being surrounded with His dear devotees. And He gave this instruction while shedding tears, shedding tears.
What was Mahāprabhu always feeling? ‘O Kṛṣṇa!’ He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He's always feeling pangs of separation from Kṛṣṇa:
kothā gele pāimu se muralī-vadana!
balite chāḍaye śvāsa, karaye krandana
[Caitanya-bhāgavata, 2.1.75]
‘Where shall I go? Where shall I find that muralī-vadana, that son of Nanda Mahārāja, who plays so sweetly with His flute?’ Flute in hand and flute at the lips. ‘Where shall I go? Where shall I find Him?’ Saying this, and breathing heavily, and shedding tears.
He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He's just teaching us how you can—by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—you'll feel such a thing. That is the highest state of that blissfulness. The highest state of this blissfulness, this ānanda. What He said—He was inspiring, He was giving inspiration to His followers:
āpana galāra mālā sabākāre diyā
ājñā kare prabhu sabe – “kṛṣṇa gāo giyā”
[Caitanya-bhāgavata, 2.28.25]
Do you understand, Mr. Raghunātha?
āpana galāra mālā sabākāre diyā, ājñā kare prabhu sabe – “kṛṣṇa gāo giyā”. From His own neck, do you understand, mālā. Do you know mālā? A flower garland. He takes off His own mālā from His shoulder, gives it to one and all, and said, ‘Go, chant. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Dance.’ He orders that thing. He is Himself doing and giving the orders:
bala kṛṣṇa, bhaja kṛṣṇa, gāo kṛṣṇa-nāma
kṛṣṇa vinu keha kichu nā bhāviha āna
Chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Don't utter any name, only Kṛṣṇa. Don't chant anything, only Kṛṣṇa. Don't think of anything, only Kṛṣṇa. Because this is the real source: Kṛṣṇa is the real source of ānanda, sac-cid-ānanda.
This is the only means, the only way how you can keep yourself in touch with that eternal source of ānanda, that is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, this material world is filled with all sorts of misery, suffering, pain, and unhappiness. No ānanda. No enjoyment here. This is the only way. You understand? That is what is needed.
This is Mahāprabhu's instruction. Mahāprabhu is your well-wishing friend, your well-wishing friend. He is always thinking of you, Mr. Michael: ‘Oh, My dear Michael is suffering, is suffering. My dear Michael is suffering, suffering.’ He is thinking of you. Are you not thinking of Him, Mr. Michael?
You should think of Him, and you should very seriously take up the instruction of Mahāprabhu. Then you will be happy, eternally happy. Eternally you will be in that ocean of blissfulness, happiness, and enjoyment—transcendental. Your life will be successful, your human life. Thank you.
Devotee: Questions?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes. Any questions here?
Devotee: If you could talk about Lord Jagannātha, Jagannātha Purī, and how they relate to Lord Caitanya?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, Jagannātha Purī Dhāma, you see, is Puruṣottama-dhāma. You understand? It is known as Puruṣottama-dhāma. In the fifteenth chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find that yoga: puruṣottama-yoga, isn't it? Kṛṣṇa is Puruṣottama. So Jagannātha is Kṛṣṇa, isn't it? You love Jagannātha, I think. You have put on some Jagannātha shirt, a T-shirt, Mr. Michael. You love Jagannātha.
Devotee: (laughs)
Gour Govinda Swami: Big, big eyes, isn't it? He is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. And that is a very dear dhāma of Mahāprabhu. It's a dear dhāma of Mahāprabhu, like Vṛndāvana-dhāma and Navadvīpa-dhāma. That is Puruṣottama-dhāma.
Mahāprabhu took up sannyāsa at the age of 24. He stayed here in this material world for 48 years. For 48 years only. So out of those 48 years, 24 years was His gṛhastha-līlā, pūrvāśrama-līlā in Nadīyā, Navadvīpa-dhāma. Then He took up sannyāsa at the age of 24.
He was going to Vṛndāvana, but His mother Śacī-mātā said, ‘No, You don't go to Vṛndāvana. You go to this Puruṣottama-dhāma, Jagannātha Purī Dhāma, because I will get Your message every year through the devotees.’ Yes, Mother—He is very dear to His mother. Mahāprabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, what Mother says, He does. Yes, mātṛ-bhakta.
Therefore, we say: śacī-nandana gaura hari. śacī-nandana—He is the son of Mother Śacī, and that pleases Mahāprabhu very much. If you utter this: śacī-nandana gaura hari, jaya śacī-nandana gaura hari, Mahāprabhu is very much pleased. You understand? If you only say: ‘Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Gaurāṅga Mahāprabhu’, He will not be so pleased. If you say: śacī-nandana gaura hari, He will be very pleased, because He is very dear to His mother. What His mother says, He does.
So, Mother says this thing: ‘You go and stay in Puruṣottama-dhāma, Jagannātha Purī Dhāma.’ So, He obeyed what His mother said—what His mother says. See, instead of going to Vṛndāvana, He went to Puruṣottama-dhāma, Jagannātha Purī Dhāma.
He stayed there because every year, the devotees from Bengal go there. Still, they are coming. Every year, they are coming during this ratha-yātrā sometime. And when Mahāprabhu was there, devotees were going there, spending four months there with Mahāprabhu, and seeing Lord Jagannātha on the cart. They do saṅkīrtana, dance, and enjoy, and associate with Mahāprabhu. And Śacī-mātā was getting messages, and Mahāprabhu was sending Jagannātha prasāda or messages.
In this way, He stayed there. Out of 24 years of His sannyāsa-līlā, for six years, He traveled. He traveled North India and South India and preached. Then for 18 years, continuously 18 years, He stayed in Jagannātha Purī Dhāma. Have you gone there?
Devotee: Next—next year maybe.
Gour Govinda Swami: You went there?
Devotee: Next year I will go.
Gour Govinda Swami: You'll go, yes. You should visit. You should visit that very dear dhāma.
Where Mahāprabhu stayed—there is one place, you'll find that is—we say Gambhīrā is Kāśī Miśra's house. It was mentioned in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Kāśī Miśra's house. That is still there, and that's known as Gambhīrā. A very small room is there where Mahāprabhu was staying. That room is still there. Some of His belongings—His wooden sandals are there, His bed and rug are there, rug and blanket are there. What He was using is kept there. That room is there. You understand? saṅkīrtana is going on by some Vaiṣṇavas who are there. Very nice Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities are there—that is, Kāśī Miśra was worshiping His Rādhā-kānta, Rādhā-kānta. It is a very nice place and you must visit.
Mahāprabhu was staying there, and He manifested His antya-līlā there with Rāya Rāmānanda and Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī. Rāya Rāmānanda and Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī were very intimate to Him, very, very intimate. In kṛṣṇa-līlā, they were Lalitā-sakhī and Viśākhā-sakhī. So, in gaura-līlā, they were Rāya Rāmānanda and Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī. So, do you understand?
Mahāprabhu was thinking Himself as Rādhā. Rādhā. He assumed the mood of Rādhārāṇī and the complexion of Rādhārāṇī, though He is Kṛṣṇa. His mood is that. My Guru Mahārāja says, ‘Don't disturb the mood of Mahāprabhu. Don't disturb the mood of Mahāprabhu. That will be very displeasing to Him.’ He is in the mood of Rādhārāṇī:
gaura aṅga nahe mora — rādhāṅga-sparśana
gopendra-suta vinā teṅho nā sparśe anya-jana
[CC Madhya 8.287]
kāhāṅ mora prāṇa-nātha muralī-vadana
kāhāṅ karoṅ kāhāṅ pāṅ vrajendra-nandana
[CC Madhya 2.15]
Saying this thing and crying, shedding tears: ‘This body is not the body of Gaurāṅga. This is rādhāṅga-sparśana, this body of Rādhārāṇī. Only the son of Nanda Mahārāja will touch this body. Nobody else can touch this body.’ That is the mood of Mahāprabhu. That is the mood.
kāhāṅ mora prāṇa-nātha muralī-vadana kāhāṅ karoṅ kāhāṅ pāṅ vrajendra-nandana
‘Where shall I go? Where, where shall I find that son of Nanda Mahārāja? Where shall I find that Kṛṣṇa with a flute in His hands, touching His lips?’ Saying this thing and crying. You understand? Putting one arm on the neck of Rāya Rāmānanda and Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, He's saying this thing and crying. That is His antya-līlā, thinking always: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa!
That He's teaching us, His prema-līlā. Discussing very subtle Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa tattva, very important, and very confidential, with Rāya Rāmānanda and Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, because they are very intimate in that small room. Chanting, thinking, chanting, and sometimes falling down, you see, unconscious; sometimes getting out unconsciously, unnoticingly. Nobody can understand how He got out of the room, or from that room—small room—where doors were bolted.
Lying there at the southern gate of Jagannātha Temple like a tortoise, like a tortoise. His hands and legs pushed inside. This is bhāvāveśa. Foam is coming out from His lips. He's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is ecstasy, highest ecstasy.
Sometimes falling down there into the ocean, thinking it is the Yamunā River. And the washerman was throwing his net to catch fish. He catches Mahāprabhu unconscious in his net. By touching Mahāprabhu, that washerman becomes ecstatic and chants: Hari Haraye Hari Haraye, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see? Such is His līlā. His antya-līlā, Mahāprabhu's.
You go there. You should go and visit. Many places are there related to these pastimes of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It's a very dear land of Mahāprabhu. Just like Vṛndāvana-dhāma and Navadvīpa-dhāma, such is Puruṣottama-dhāma. Yes, the most famous dhāma. All ācāryas, they go there. Many devotees are going there every day, especially at ratha-yātrā time. From all parts of the world, many devotees come. They chant and dance before Jagannātha's ratha. Mahāprabhu was dancing, chanting, and dancing when He was there. So, līlā is going on in Jagannātha Purī Dhāma. You understand? Yes.
Also you'll find in Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta, Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī has said many things about Jagannātha Purī Dhāma. And also, Vyāsadeva has written one Purāṇa that is the biggest Purāṇa, that is Skanda Purāṇa. Skanda Purāṇa. And one special volume is there, which is known as Utkala-khaṇḍa. In Skanda Purāṇa, it is known as Utkala-khaṇḍa. All about this Utkala, Orissa, Puruṣottama-dhāma, Vyāsadeva has written there—all about Jagannātha, all about His yātrās, festivals, and His different veśas. Different types of dresses, and this tattva, Jagannātha-tattva. Everything he has mentioned there. Such is Jagannātha Dhāma.
Devotee: Yes. I have one question.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: I have a mother who lives in New York, and she practices some form of yoga. And she's always saying that, "Well, what's good for you may not be good for me," that all paths lead to the same goal. And I was wondering, how would someone defeat that—like, saying that all paths mean it's all one?
Gour Govinda Swami: The path is one. The path is not many. The path is one: to go and approach the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the path of bhakti. No other—no karma, no jñāna, and no yoga. That, Kṛṣṇa clearly says in Bhagavad-gītā, and in the Bhāgavatam.
Devotee: What if you're telling that to a person who doesn't accept the authority of the scripture?
Gour Govinda Swami: Then if one cannot—one who doesn't accept the authority, what shall we say? The first thing is you should accept the authority, the bona fide authority.
Your mother is the authority to speak about your father. Nobody else is the authority. Mother says, "Mr. X is your father." You accept without any argument. Yes, Mother says so, because the mother knows the father. Nobody else knows. She's the authority. Nothing has to be said. What she says, you have to accept it. That is the principle: accept the authority.
Kṛṣṇa is the authority. The Veda is the authority. The Veda is a mother who speaks about the supreme father. So, the Veda says this thing. And this is the essence of the Veda in Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. And Kṛṣṇa says—it directly comes out from the lips of Kṛṣṇa, so it is known as Gītopaniṣad. The topmost portion of the Veda is the Upaniṣad. It says, it is bhakti:
bhaktyāham ekayā grāhyaḥ [SB 11.14.21]
bhaktyā labhyas tv ananyayā [BG 8.22]
bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [BG 18.55]
Bhakti, nothing else. But in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, He says the same thing to Uddhava:
na sādhayati māṁ yogo
na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava
na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgo
yathā bhaktir mamorjitā
[SB 11.14.20]
Not this, not this, not this—only bhakti. So, there's only one way, one way. No different way. That is authority. The supreme authority is Kṛṣṇa. You have to accept it. If you won't accept it, you'll be bewildered. You'll be bewildered. Life, life after life, after life—life, life after life, involving yourself in the cycle of birth and death. It's going on: suffering, suffering.
That is authority. That's our principle: accept authority, accept authority. That's the first thing.
A simple child, when a simple child goes to primary school to begin his education, his father gets him admitted to the school and says to the teacher—his teacher, yes, he teaches, he's a bona fide teacher, he's appointed, and he has a certificate from the training college. You understand? Government has appointed him as a bona fide teacher. What he teaches is bona fide.
So the simple child accepts. The teacher says, "Two and two is equal to four." "Two and two is equal to four." The child accepts, "Yes, two and two is equal to four." He never says, "Why should it be four? Why not be three or five or six or something else?" He never says that, no. He is the authority, who says so.
When you ask that child, "Two and two is equal to what?" He says, "Two and two is equal to four." "How?" "My teacher says so," he'll give this answer, because the teacher is the authority. I have accepted authority.
Then he will get promotion to the next higher class, next higher class, and next higher class. Higher, higher, and higher class. Then to the post-graduate class of mathematics he'll go. Then he can understand how two and two is equal to four, and not anything else. There it will be explained. Not in the beginning. In the beginning, you have to accept authority. That is the principle. Then you can get promotion. Otherwise, no promotion.
Devotee: All right, so then they make something the authority about the Gītā, the authority of the Vedas.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: Sometimes we see—sometimes people, they come as a spiritual personality; they look like they're spiritual and they kind of twist—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Devotee: So how does one who doesn't know—
Gour Govinda Swami: Who is the real, bona fide authority? That is another question. Kṛṣṇa says: evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. That paramparā is there in the fourth chapter, in the beginning of the fourth chapter. What did He say?
Devotee:
imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave ’bravīt
[BG 4.1]
Gour Govinda Swami:manur ikṣvākave ’bravīt [BG 4.1]
evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [BG 4.2]
That is there. ‘Oh, Arjuna, what I am saying, it is not new. It is old, that science of yoga I was telling you about.’ Many, many, many, many—very, very olden days, pūrve, I had taught, and spoken about this to Vivasvān. Vivasvān said it to Manu. Manu to Ikṣvāku. In this way, this paramparā comes—the disciplic succession that begins from Kṛṣṇa.
And by course of time, many paramparās are destroyed, have been destroyed: kāleneha naṣṭaḥ.
Devotee: sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ
Gour Govinda Swami: sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa [BG 4.2]. That is stated here. That is kāla's business: it destroys. Now He begins a new paramparā from Arjuna.
So, in Kali-yuga, in the Padma Purāṇa, Vyāsadeva has quoted that verse:
ataḥ kalau bhaviṣyanti catvāraḥ sampradāyinaḥ
śrī-brahma-rudra-sanakāḥ vaiṣṇavāḥ kṣiti-pāvanāḥ
catvāras te kalau bhāvyā hy utkale puruṣottamāt
[Padma Purāṇa, Uttara-khaṇḍa 235.18-19]
You see: utkale puruṣottamāt. That Utkala, the name is there—Odisha, Jagannātha Purī Dhāma. That is in the Veda, in the Padma Purāṇa. Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa quoted this in his Prameya-ratnāvalī, this verse.
So, in Kali-yuga, there are four bona fide paramparās: Śrī, Brahma, Rudra, and Sanaka. The Śrī-sampradāya begins from Śrī Lakṣmī-jī. The ācārya is Rāmānujācārya. The Brahma-sampradāya begins from Brahmā. The ācārya is Madhvācārya. And Mahāprabhu accepted His guru from this Brahma-Madhva-sampradāya. Īśvara Purī is His guru. Īśvara Purī's guru is Mādhavendra Purī, isn't it?
So Mahāprabhu accepted it. Then, this word "Gauḍīya" is added to it, because Mahāprabhu was born in Gauḍadeśa, that's in Bengal. So the Gauḍīya word is added to it. So, this paramparā is known as the Brahma-Madhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya. We belong to that sampradāya—followers of Mahāprabhu.
Then Rudra—it begins from Rudra, Śiva-jī. The ācārya is Viṣṇu Svāmī. He's of the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. And Sanaka—the four Kumāras. And the ācārya is Nimbārkācārya. He's known as Nimbārkāditya, the Nimbārkācārya sampradāya. These four are Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas, bona fide in Kali-yuga.
But, catvāras te kalau bhāvyā hy utkale puruṣottamāt. The last part of the verse is most important. The philosophy of these four ācāryas—Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and Nimbārkācārya—all their philosophy is bhakti philosophy. But some little, little difference between dvaita and advaita is there: viśiṣṭādvaita, dvaitādvaita, śuddhādvaita, and kevalādvaita like this. Mm.
And Madhvācārya—in his philosophy, there is no advaita at all. Completely, he destroyed advaita. Only dvaita—two.
So there are little, little differences. So Mahāprabhu came at last. These four ācāryas came prior to Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu came 500 years ago. He came as sādhu-ācārya to teach (Transcription missing, 1:07:05-1:08:50)
Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Thank you. Mr. Michael, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, be happy.
Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Take part in hari-saṅkīrtana. Come to the temple. Hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and take part. Make your life successful. Be happy, and then you'll never toil so hard like an ass. Alright.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes, yes. So many, yes. I said this is the only hari-guru-caraṇa padma—that is the only weapon. Only weapon. Mm.
Devotee: Are we going to have a temple in Jagannātha Purī?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, we have land there.
Devotee: How is that project going?
Gour Govinda Swami: A very big project, like Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur. We have 30 acres of land there. 30 acres of land. A very big land.
Devotee: What is the schedule?
Gour Govinda Swami: I think this year, in the GBC meeting, something will be taken up. Last year, a committee has already been formed, known as the International Purī Development Committee. And this year they will take up some work.
Devotee: We have approval from the local community?
Gour Govinda Swami: Soon we'll do something.
Devotee: When devotees go to Purī, what do they have to do? Is there a place where they can associate with devotees?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you go to Purī, on the land—on that land I have built a house, a pucca house. Three rooms are there. Three rooms. Three rooms are there, and devotees are there. Also, it is three kilometres from the Purī Temple. Understand? That is gradually developing. A road is going there. It's still, now, jungle.
But many āśramas and maṭhas are there in Purī, because Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's/Purī Mahārāja's maṭha is there near Guṇḍicā Mandira, at Caitanya Candra Āśrama.
Devotee: Will you be there in February?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, I was there. I am usually there in—
Devotee: February 1st to 3rd.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am there in Bhubaneswar.
Devotee: Bhubaneswar. Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: It's close to Purī. One hour's drive only. It's only 60 kilometres. To go to Purī, you will pass through Bhubaneswar. Yes, you'll pass through Bhubaneswar on the way.
Devotee: By train?
Gour Govinda Swami: Train is there, bus is there, everything is there. And if you go by plane, you will land at Bhubaneswar, because Bhubaneswar is an airport. Purī is not an airport.
Devotee: Is there any kind of guide for visiting devotees, to have some guide or something like that?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes. A tourist guide is there.
Devotee: There are devotees?
Gour Govinda Swami: Devotees are there.
Devotee: I mean, you know, someone to show us around, because if you go alone, if you go alone, you don't know. So—
Gour Govinda Swami: You come to our Bhubaneswar Temple.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: You come to our temple, the Bhubaneswar temple. So, the president will give you a guide, a devotee. Yes. That we can do. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Devotee: Is Bhāgavata Prabhu still in charge of the program?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no, he's not there.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: He was there in the beginning with me, then he—now, he is a gṛhastha or kāryastha, Bhāgavata, I heard. Staying somewhere there—New York, I heard.
Devotee: How do we fix our mind when we're doing so many management activities? We need—
Gour Govinda Swami: Remember one thing: "I'm doing this thing for Kṛṣṇa. I'm doing this thing for Kṛṣṇa." Yes.
Devotee: But maybe not—maybe our mind, we have to really concentrate on some particular activity like reading some manuals, so Kṛṣṇa seems very difficult to remember.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, sometimes difficult, but by practice—abhyāsa-yoga, that Kṛṣṇa said in Bhagavad-gītā. This by practice you can do; you have to do it. This is a question of practice.
Devotee: When Arjuna was fighting—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa only. That Kṛṣṇa says this thing:
mām anusmara yudhya ca [BG 8.7]
That verse is there: ‘Think of Me and fight.’ That is His teaching. That is, you have to practice this thing under the guidance of guru. Yes, that is a question of practice. Yes, practice. That is a question of practice. By practice, you can do it: ‘Think of Me.’
mām anusmara yudhya ca mayy arpita-mano-buddhir mām evaiṣyasy [BG 8.7]
That verse is there in Bhagavad-gītā: ‘Think of Me and fight.’ You understand? Yes. Kṛṣṇa is there, as the Charioteer. Mm.
Devotee: Do you go to the Jagannātha Temple?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. I am allowed. You are not allowed there. They see the skin, you see? Only skin. Nothing else. White skin? "No, no, no." The paṇḍās, some paṇḍās. Anything like that, I say, "Come during ratha-yātrā," so it's public. You can see Jagannātha.
Devotee: I heard there's one time, there's one day where anyone can go inside.
Gour Govinda Swami: No.
Devotee: No?
Gour Govinda Swami: You are debarred.
Devotee: Once every so often?
Gour Govinda Swami: Only this ratha-yātrā time.
Devotee: Oh, that's when.
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm. Jagannātha comes out. You will see. There is no hindrance, you see? Mm-hmm. At that time also you can chant, dance, and you can climb up to the ratha also.
Devotee: Can we see the temple from the outside?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes.
Devotee: The Nṛsiṁha? The Nṛsiṁha deity there?
Gour Govinda Swami: Outside you can see, yes. Outside.
Devotee: There's a Nṛsiṁha deity—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, this is inside the campus.
Devotee: Oh, you can't go outside to see it?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, not outside. That is inside that campus.
Devotee: You can do parikramā around it?
Gour Govinda Swami: Parikramā, you can do. Yes. Big walls are there. Compound walls, you see?
Devotee: My skin gets very, very dark.
Gour Govinda Swami: But they won't allow you.
Devotee: How will they know?
Gour Govinda Swami: They know.
Devotee: How will they know?
Gour Govinda Swami: You may go and try. Pray to Jagannātha; if He allows you, then nobody can debar you.
Devotee: Swami, do you know Tatpara Swami?
Gour Govinda Swami: Tatpara?
Devotee: Tatpara Swami?
Gour Govinda Swami: Tatpara?
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, I know him.
Devotee: He came to the United States about two years ago.
Gour Govinda Swami: Acchā. Hmm. Yes, I know him.
Devotee: What kind of—you were saying the different outfits about Jagannātha? Veśa? The veśa of Jagannātha?
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm. Different, different veśas are there. There is one book. There is one book where it is all mentioned. Pictures are there, mentioning it all. You know Gaura Kiśora? Gaura Kiśora dāsa? We met him in Hawaii.
Devotee: Is Nārada Muni in Jagannātha Purī?
Gour Govinda Swami: Nārada Muni goes everywhere. He goes everywhere. Everywhere.
Gaura Kiśora? Yes, he is a disciple of Prabhupāda, yeah. We met him in Hawaii, you see? He is doing something. He has that book, the different veśas of Jagannātha. Yeah. Everything is there. And Gaura Kiśora dāsa, he's in Hawaii, Honolulu. You may contact him. He has that book. He is researching in it.
Devotee: Do they have a veśa of Lord Jagannātha as Lord Rāmacandra?
Gour Govinda Swami: Ha, sometimes they do it.
Devotee: Which temple were you brought up in?
Gour Govinda Swami: In Bhubaneswar.
Devotee: Which temple were you brought up in?
Gour Govinda Swami: I am in Bhubaneswar. It's close to Jagannātha Purī.
Devotee: Bhubaneswar is the capital city of Orissa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Capital city of Orissa.
Devotee: Isn't that a name of Lady Subhadrā?
Gour Govinda Swami: No.
Devotee: Lady Subhadrā?
Gour Govinda Swami: Bhuvaneśvarī, Bhuvaneśvarī.
Devotee: Oh, that's the temple that you were brought up in?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, I'm there in Bhubaneswar, yes.
Devotee: Where is Bhubaneswar?
Gour Govinda Swami: Bhubaneswar is śiva-kṣetra. Śiva, Lord Śiva's place. Liṅgarāja Śiva is there. A Vaiṣṇava.
Devotee: I have a question.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: I saw a video of the celebration, you know, every 12 years, millions of people come to the Ganges.
Devotee: Kumbha Melā.
Devotee: Yeah, Kumbha Melā.
Gour Govinda Swami: Kumbha Melā.
Devotee: Now, and then, I saw that there were these men that—they come, they say that they—they don't go by road or by train or any other way. And they're naked and they go up, and they have a special way for them to go up, and I started thinking to myself: how is it that this man gets to be naked and not be offensive?
Gour Govinda Swami: Some yogī, you see.
Devotee: Nāgā Bābā.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, a yogī.
Devotee: Nāgā Bābā.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yogīs.
Devotee: They're real yogis?
Gour Govinda Swami: They are yogīs, yes.
Devotee: They're Kṛṣṇa yogis?
Gour Govinda Swami: No. Mystic yogī.
Devotee: Oh, they're not Kṛṣṇa yogis?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no, not bhakti-yogī.
Devotee: Oh, they're not bhakti-yogīs?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, they're mystic yogī.
Devotee: Oh, they're mystic yogis.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: Not Kṛṣṇa yogis.
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no. Yeah.
Devotee: Do you know that in some temples you are not allowed? In some temples you are not allowed all the way up there. You are restricted to a certain point. You can't go all the way. Is that true?
Gour Govinda Swami: Where? What temple?
Devotee: In the south and—?
Gour Govinda Swami: In the south, why? No restriction. Only in the Jagannātha temple there is restriction. They don't allow these white people. Otherwise, in all temples no restriction is now there. They go. Only in Jagannātha Purī.
Devotee: One temple in Vṛndāvana, the Raṅganātha Temple.
Gour Govinda Swami: Raṅganātha Temple is not allowing, yes.
Devotee: But in South India, to Tirupati we can go.
Gour Govinda Swami: Ah, Tirupati they are going, yes.
Devotee: But it's connected, you know.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mm-hmm.
Devotee: But in Vṛndāvana we can't go.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mm-hmm.
Devotee: How—how can they justify this mentality when Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained that everyone is spiritual, and was preaching all over the world, and how can they justify it, to believe in Caitanya Mahāprabhu?
Gour Govinda Swami: You see, they believe everything, but in this—in Jagannātha Purī some rascal paṇḍās are there. They are very rowdy people, you see. All are afraid of them, afraid of them. Even a government minister is afraid of them. So, they can—they understand this thing, but they cannot do anything.
Oh, no need of—why shall we stress on this point? Jagannātha will come out; if you have bhakti, Jagannātha will come out to you to give you darśana, you see. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was not going, though he was staying there. Sanātana Gosvāmī was not going. Rūpa Gosvāmī was not going. Then Jagannātha was coming to them. Jagannātha is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya every day.
Devotee: Prabhupāda didn't go?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Prabhupāda didn't go. Previously he was going, you see. But when he came to the West and preached, you see, and these Western devotees, disciples, were not allowed, Prabhupāda said, "No, I won’t go to Orissa even." He was not going.
Then when I became his disciple, then he told me, "Gaur Govinda, you will take me to Orissa." He told me that thing. So, I took him into Orissa. Yes. He was not going. And he stayed there in Bhubaneswar for 17 days. For one day he went to Purī, Jagannātha Purī, but he didn't go to the temple. He didn't go.
Devotee: What's the reason? They think that white people are Christians? That's why they don't allow them?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. They say these people, they eat this beef, you see—cow's flesh, this go-māṁsa-bhakṣaṇa. Very sinful. Though they are not doing it now. They are purified by saṁskāra. They are Vaiṣṇavas. Those paṇḍās, they don't accept these things.
Devotee: I heard that during the British rule there were many offenses.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Anyhow, they are not allowing them. Even—even they didn't allow Indira Gandhi also, because—
Devotee: Indira Gandhi?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, they didn't allow her because she married a Mohammedan.
Devotee: Mohammedan.
Gour Govinda Swami: Feroze Gandhi, you see. So, they didn't allow her.
Devotee: She wasn't allowed?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, she was not allowed. Yes.
Devotee: I have a brother who is married to a white American woman, and they went to this temple. She was very much offended that she was not allowed to go up.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: She always complained about it.
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow, so paṇḍās... so we don't stress on it.
Devotee: Have you read the Jagannātha Līlā book, the brown one?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh, I have got the book; I have not read it. Yes. He gave it.
Devotee: He gave you that in St. Louis.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, St. Louis, yes, in that Divyāṅga. Yes.
Devotee: There was one pastime that one devotee, he was very poor and I think he was from a lower class—
Gour Govinda Swami: Dāśiyā Bāuri, yes, I know.
Devotee: And he offered—
Gour Govinda Swami: I know, I know, it's a very famous, famous story there.
Devotee: Mango?
Gour Govinda Swami: No mango, no. This is coconut.
Devotee: Oh, coconut.
Gour Govinda Swami: Coconut.
Devotee: To the cakra? Jagannātha's cakra?
Gour Govinda Swami: Outside. Just outside.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: He said, "Come and take this." So, one hand came and took it. Yes. He was a great devotee of Jagannātha, because he was born in a low family, an untouchable family. He was not allowed to enter into Jagannātha's temple. So, he stood outside, outside the temple, and said, "Jagannātha, I have brought this coconut for You. You should personally take it from my hand, otherwise I won't give it to You." So, a hand came and took it.
Devotee: Rādheśyāma.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. His name is Dāśiyā Bāuri. Yes.
Devotee: Then that pot containing that coconut, is it preserved today? Every year, it is going to the cart, to the cart of Jagannātha.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes. That pot is preserved. Yes.
Devotee: That small basket containing that coconut is still there. Still there.
Devotee: Each year, it is going to the cart, the cart of Jagannātha. And then it comes out.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, yeah, it is preserved. It is preserved. Yes. That is there. Mm. That's a great devotee, you see. All right. We'll go.